gmarshall Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Hi All Our windows arrive shortly so I need to think about lifting them (fitting them ourselves- timber aluclad). We have a few large first floor units- largest is 2.3 m wide and weighs ~100 kg, and a couple of larger units downstairs - largest a 2.6 m triple glazed slider weighing in at 250 kg. Does anyone have any recommendations of lifting kit to hire, or any other tips for that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Vacuum kombi sucker on a crane or robot arm? @craig will be along shortly I'm sure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) Telehandler and MRT4 vacuum sucker from GGR, you’ll need to have hired in equipment insurance or telehandler and slings. Important to understand distance from forks to glass and protecting the glass. One wrong move and you’ve smashed the glass or dropped the unit. If you have balls of steel, man power. Edited October 13, 2021 by craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmarshall Posted October 15, 2021 Author Share Posted October 15, 2021 Thanks guys, will take a look. I've fitted windows before and we have plenty of smaller units for 'practice', so wish us luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 We fitted a 3M wide 3G slider with 4 men and 4 sets of suckers. Obviously took the sliding sash out to halve the weight to lift in one go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 I fitted all mine, big windows 125kg, big doors 250kg. I paid for fitters on the door as i wanted the extra warranty, the company wanted to charge for a spider crane and suction device, I told them we would supply extra labour to lift them. When the fitters came they said even if I had of paid for the spider crane they would prefer to lift them manually, they said the Crain is only any good for second storey windows in the region of 200kg, any less they just pick them up. 4 lads with a large sucker each and our door was in. Windows lifted to this second level with a genie lift. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 36 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: I told them we would supply extra labour to lift them. 43 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: 4 lads with a large sucker each and our door was in. Just bare in mind, that health and safety requirements indicate that mechanical lifting should be used. "If" anything was to go wrong because the risk was not assessed correctly, it will result in the wrath of the HSE. That's why lifting equipment is recommended (installers usually prefer to manually lift, as it saves time and generally not that heavy) & self builds are generally not as strict as commercial. 44 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: Windows lifted to this second level with a genie lift. Genie lifts are good but I'm not a fan of the restrictions they present. You need a solid flat ground externally to use them and you need to be very close to the building to utilise them. This is the same with glazing robots (even the offload versions) & why we prefer a telehandler & vacuum attachment. 45 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: they said even if I had of paid for the spider crane they would prefer to lift them manually Spider cranes are good, we tend to use them for curtain walling but generally you need to offload the windows and doors which are palletised & we need a telehandler for that anyway and a weeks hire for a telehandler & vacuum sucker is better than the stop/start and repositioning required with a spider crane (it's just slower). 2 hours ago, ProDave said: Obviously took the sliding sash out to halve the weight to lift in one go Sensible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 On 13/10/2021 at 21:07, gmarshall said: Does anyone have any recommendations of lifting kit to hire, or any other tips for that matter? Having recently done my own windows, and mainly on my own, I'd would say it depends entirely on access and space around your house. With my installation it was such that I couldn't use any of the commonly available lifting equipment e.g. telehandler, spider crane, tracked lift, glazing robot, or a genie type lift (I hired one of these thinking it could work). I had to make my own lifts using Kwikstage scaffolding and an Elephant chain hoist using a hired in 4 pad suction lifter. I used Hird for my equipment hire who were very easy to deal with and much cheaper than GGR who I found wanted to over-sell equipment (and operator) and were a bureaucratic nightmare for a self-builder! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 Just one sucker on his own fitted my windows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Onoff said: Just one sucker on his own fitted my windows... which invalidates the experience how exactly? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmarshall Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 Thanks all, really useful stuff. We are a refurb project, and whilst access is good at the front it's less good at the back (genie lift etc ok, telehandler definitely not!), So good to know smaller options have worked for some. Planning to tackle some of the smaller units first, then the bigger ones with easy access and the trickiest last. Here's hoping for some reasonable weather for a few weeks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Resurrecting this thread. My windows are mostly in and looking good. But the builder is struggling with the largest window. The windows are from Russell We have a 3G slider that is 3.7x2.5m and weighs 467kg. Original plan was to move it through the house into position on rollers. builder is concerned re safety of this and the amount of labour needed. Current plan is to use a large crane to lift it over the house and lower it down into position. The crane company are uncertain if they have window lifters for the width of the quite deep frame. Apparently the fitters normally deal with Velfac and would dismantle such a large window and then put it back together in place. Russell have told them that they cannot dismantle the window although I have not had this conversation with Russell. It would seem that if we could take the slider out and reduce the weight to <250kg then things would be a lot easier. Very difficult to move the window round to the back of the house due to scaffolding and lack of flat ground. Does anyone have any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 A bigger vacuum lifter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miek Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 8 hours ago, AliG said: Resurrecting this thread. My windows are mostly in and looking good. But the builder is struggling with the largest window. The windows are from Russell We have a 3G slider that is 3.7x2.5m and weighs 467kg. Original plan was to move it through the house into position on rollers. builder is concerned re safety of this and the amount of labour needed. Current plan is to use a large crane to lift it over the house and lower it down into position. The crane company are uncertain if they have window lifters for the width of the quite deep frame. Apparently the fitters normally deal with Velfac and would dismantle such a large window and then put it back together in place. Russell have told them that they cannot dismantle the window although I have not had this conversation with Russell. It would seem that if we could take the slider out and reduce the weight to <250kg then things would be a lot easier. Very difficult to move the window round to the back of the house due to scaffolding and lack of flat ground. Does anyone have any suggestions? Rolling a half ton huge panel could be somewhat dangerous. I'd say you want plenty of rollers to avoid a point load occurring on the bottom of the unit. They may not want it dismantled due to warranties perhaps, but if its done with care this would ( and will be ) my favoured route. Let us know how you get on as I have an almost identical unit coming in the autumn . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonD Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 11 hours ago, AliG said: Does anyone have any suggestions? I would give the window lifting department at Hird a call. They were very good and helpful for me. Several options of vacuum lifters and potentially glazing robots. https://hird.co.uk/products/glass-vacuum-lifters/ https://hird.co.uk/products/glazing-robots/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 You should be able to take the sliding sash off, reducing the weight by 50%, we normally use a one wheel bogey too transport through the house. Alternative option is using an Oscar 600 off road but you can only use the fixed pane for lifting. A telehandler with fork attachment and vacuum sucker is your best bet if you can navigate around the outside of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Thanks Craig. Just spoke to the builder. He says the plan is to attach suckers to the fixed pane and open the moving pane enough to get a strap around the frame. I did ask the question as to whether the top of the frame can take the weight which he did agree he would have to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, AliG said: open the moving pane enough to get a strap around the frame. If you're using straps, you need to lift from the bottom and you don't need to open the door to do this. However, I do presume he means a lifting strap around the bottom for 2 men to assist with the lift. Edited June 9, 2022 by craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 No, that was the question. He was thinking of opening the door enough to put a strap through under the top of the frame. I pointed out that the top of the frame was probably not designed to take any weight. I assume from what you say that you agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 On 09/06/2022 at 12:27, AliG said: I assume from what you say that you agree. Correct 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 On 09/06/2022 at 11:22, craig said: If you're using straps, you need to lift from the bottom and you don't need to open the door to do this. However, I do presume he means a lifting strap around the bottom for 2 men to assist with the lift. That’s a good bit of slinging! Ties to stop the strops moving in or out if the load was tipped towards one strop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 8 hours ago, markc said: That’s a good bit of slinging! Ties to stop the strops moving in or out if the load was tipped towards one strop To be fair, that’s experience and knowledge but it wasn’t me or our team. That was a supply only project to the Orkneys 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 On 15/10/2021 at 13:09, SimonD said: Having recently done my own windows, and mainly on my own, I'd would say it depends entirely on access and space around your house. How did you find doing it yourself? We are still trying to get the windows sorted, very tough getting it right and deciding to self fit / not self fit. A few questions if you are up for them: Why did you go for self fit. EG When the VAT on the windows will be about the cost of the fit and so the whole package will be zero rated and supply only won't, getting it right will be down to the installers. How did you verify the sizing / fitting clearances? How did you find getting the cill details correct? I guess as you fitted then yourself you also did the air tightness work. (Our installers don't want anything to do with the air tightness work to the extent they do not want to fit the tapes to the frames before they fit them so they can go on the outer of the frame not take up frame space.) How did this go? How did you move the windows around the site to get them to the lifting points if working on your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miek Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 I've just ordered my windows. Cost is the reason for self installing. Period. Sizing is done of the drawings. There is 10mm clearance all round on most windows. For the 5m wide slider ther is more clearance, especially on the height as the opening could sag. Airtightness will be done according to the manufacturers recommendation, compriband etc... Aluminium sill extensions in my case are about 50mm ,just to cover the stone sill below. Moving windows... tractor , digger , dolly , sockets and manpower I expect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 44 minutes ago, Miek said: Sizing is done of the drawings. There is 10mm clearance all round on most windows. For the 5m wide slider ther is more clearance, especially on the height as the opening could sag. Careful. you are assuming the openings have actually been made to the size on the drawings. My builders came and measured the actual as built opening sizes before ordering the windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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