Down Pipes can you hide them

[GrantMcscott]

Hi

Is there any way you can hide down pipes? Due to the windows on my house being in the roof and the wall (see pic)it is causing the need to have lots of downpipes for the guttering.  If the guttering goes past the window it will be in line with your eye.  On the elevation there is actually another set of the windows so 5 in total 

 

Is there any clever solutions to solve this.

 

[ToughButterCup]

I take it there is a flat roof above each window?

Not sure this is clever: run the gutter across the windows (say the group of three on the RHS)  along to the left-most (pair of?) windows and put your downpipe there. This would mean that  rainwater disposal drives the window design - not clever.

 

Might a rainwater chain be an idea? Might be clever.

 

If you can't beat it, join it..... make the downpipes fun - interesting

The idea is from Germany (sorry you have to get used to that from me ?)

 

 

Clever but expensive.

 

[GrantMcscott]

14 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

I take it there is a flat roof above each window?

 

 

No it is a pitched roof.  Was thinking about brining the down pipe inside and putting it in the service cavity.

[Conor]

9 minutes ago, GrantMcscott said:

No it is a pitched roof.  Was thinking about brining the down pipe inside and putting it in the service cavity.

I wanted to put all our downpipes within the 150mm core of the ICF walls... architect pretty much laughed at me. The consequences of a blocked and flooding down pipe within the envelope of the building are pretty much inevitable, catastrophic and expensive.

 

 

[PeterW]

11 minutes ago, GrantMcscott said:

No it is a pitched roof.  Was thinking about brining the down pipe inside and putting it in the service cavity.

Downpipes during heavy rain are very noisy. They would have to be a one piece for me with no joins and sealed very well. Also produces a huge cold bridge. 

[GrantMcscott]

52 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Downpipes during heavy rain are very noisy. They would have to be a one piece for me with no joins and sealed very well. Also produces a huge cold bridge. 

I am ok with them being all in one length with no joins as I do not want something that looks like this

 

[PeterW]

But you have to get them through the wall and join them when they change direction so you will introduce a leak. 
 

Is this a render finish ..?? What about colour matching (powder coat) your downpipes to match the walls ..??

[Mr Punter]

Was going to suggest different rooflights... Doh!

Edited March 18, 2021 by Mr Punter
The building is already erected with windows in place

[ToughButterCup]

4 hours ago, PeterW said:

Downpipes during heavy rain are very noisy. ....

 

Ughhhhh.... now you tell me...

Scorched by the heat of my own misguided  Europeanism, I went and bought Lindab. Metal, Bee Knees, Dog's Dodahs. Wont  go into too much detail (yet),  but you can hang from  Lindab guttering by your own fingertips for a good few very    l  o  n   g   seconds and nothing happens . The gutter squeeks a bit, but thats all.  As  I hung there flapping gently in the wind I found time to wonder  why I hadn't secured the ladder better. What a waste of brain power.   True enough, I got a  bit wet, but not from the water spilling from the gutter if you know what I mean. 

 

And, as you say the water does make a noise in a storm - pleasant, soothing. You are warm and dry, its wet outside. Lovely.

 

Except when theres a bit of a dew fall (AKA condensation)  It drips in ones and twos. Drip drop....... drip drop. And it echoes in the downspout.

Last night - well it was like the proverbial water torture. 20 - 30 seconds between drips.

 

Cant take a joke? Don't self build.

I have a cunning plan to cure it. I think.

[Onoff]

@Barney12 did a really neat detail hiding his down pipes in his dormer.

[Construction Channel]

My only suggestion would be to create a fake mansard/ tile hung section between the windows so you could bring the gutter line to below the sills. Not sure how good it would look but it would solve the problem. 

 

What was the original design to deal with the downpipes? Or is that your last pic with red line.. 

[GrantMcscott]

13 hours ago, Construction Channel said:

My only suggestion would be to create a fake mansard/ tile hung section between the windows so you could bring the gutter line to below the sills. Not sure how good it would look but it would solve the problem. 

 

What was the original design to deal with the downpipes? Or is that your last pic with red line.. 

That is the issue there is no design for it it is a miss and know the roof is on it is like a bit of Sh*t what do I do moment.

 

I was thinking that due to the lengths of guttering being in small sections then the area of roof is very small the water is collected from.  Due to this the flow rate will be greatly reduced thus I can get away with a smaller drainage pipe.

 

I could connect a 32mm MDPE pipe to the back of the gutter and run it down the cavity or inside the house and out the bottom. This would have no joins in it and if in the house can insulate it so no noise.  I could put a mesh at the top to stop it getting blocked.

[Ferdinand]

17 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Ughhhhh.... now you tell me...

Scorched by the heat of my own misguided  Europeanism, I went and bought Lindab. Metal, Bee Knees, Dog's Dodahs. Wont  go into too much detail (yet),  but you can hang from  Lindab guttering by your own fingertips for a good few very    l  o  n   g   seconds and nothing happens . The gutter squeeks a bit, but thats all.  As  I hung there flapping gently in the wind I found time to wonder  why I hadn't secured the ladder better. What a waste of brain power.   True enough, I got a  bit wet, but not from the water spilling from the gutter if you know what I mean. 

 

 

I suppose it beats hanging from scaffolding by your underpants...

[Ferdinand]

23 hours ago, GrantMcscott said:

Hi

Is there any way you can hide down pipes? Due to the windows on my house being in the roof and the wall (see pic)it is causing the need to have lots of downpipes for the guttering.  If the guttering goes past the window it will be in line with your eye.  On the elevation there is actually another set of the windows so 5 in total 

 

Is there any clever solutions to solve this.

 

 

OK. 

 

Help me understand.

 

This is a nearly finished self-build with a glitch in the design?

Am I correct that the horizontal black lie at the bottom of the roof is a gutter than runs in front of the half-high window frame section? Or is it 2 separate windows with the upper set back?

If it is a newbuild, who made the design cockup? Not properly considering drainpipes counts as a cockup. (There may be comeback on an architect, depending.)

And am I correct that the entire wall is rough stonework - not just a decorative section?

Do you have a photo? Of both problem elevations?

 

I understand that this is both elevations of the house.

 

I have thoughts, but could you just comment on the Qs.

Cheers

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

[GrantMcscott]

6 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

OK. This is a bastard problem.

 

Help me understand.

 

Is this an old house that is being restored, or a nearly finished self-build with a glitch in the design?

Am I correct the area you need to drain here is the entire roof? 

Am I correct that the horizontal black lie at the bottom of the roof is a gutter?

If it is a newbuild, who made the design cockup? Not properly considering drainpipes counts as a cockup.

And am I correct that the entire wall is rough stonework - not just a decorative section?

Do you have a photo?

 

I understand that this is both elevations of the house.

 

I have thoughts, but could you just comment on the Qs.

Cheers

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

Hi

Here is a phot of one of the elevations.   It is a new build and the black line will be roughly where the gutter will be but not running past the windows.  The whole roof will need to be drained by the gutter and the windows have a hidden gutter in them that drains into the main gutter.  

The walls will be a mix of render in bit and sections of stone.

 

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

....

Not properly considering drainpipes counts as a cockup. (There may be comeback on an architect, depending.)

...

 

Oooooofff. ?

There isn't much wiggle room on this one is there? 

 

I suspect the idea isn't popular, but if you cant work the problem through, work with its weakness.  Make rainwater disposal visual fun.

[Ferdinand]

3 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

Oooooofff. ?

There isn't much wiggle room on this one is there? 

 

I suspect the idea isn't popular, but if you cant work the problem through, work with its weakness.  Make rainwater disposal visual fun.

 

No, there isn't. BH (or at least my bit of it) is "husk-off".

 

Though I admit I have just come from debating Ursula VDL with certain Brussels based journos who seem to view themselves as (very) amateur press officers for the institution of the EU, and are trying to blame everything on anybody else - specifically us. So it has been robust ?. And that may have stuck to me.

 

Yes, ve can vork it through.

 

F

[Ferdinand]

Right. Have lunch taken. There are a number of potential ways to skin this cat. You will also need comments from others on the individual merits, but I can lay out some approaches. Feel free to ask any questions. As it is such a big question I have not defined everything to a T.

 

First, however:

 

1 - You are likely to need to reconsider partially the aesthetic of your house, if you want it to look like your changes were "intended".

2 - This could swallow a decent chunk of your contingency. To do it well you are going to be looking at up to £30-60 per sqm of wall. But you save on the render ?.

3 - Inexpensive is possible, but to get it to look (as I say) intended, it will be a fair amount of work.

4 - In my opinion, you are going to want some design advice from a pro of some sort on this.

5 - You may want different approaches on the 2 facades - the one photographed looks easier than the other.

6 - Consider alternative shapes of drainpipes eg 61mm square or alu or copper.

7 - You will need to do some careful thinking and sketching, perhaps samples.

8 - I think you want a mix, and you need to do some really careful playing with piccies and models to get it right.

9 - You may need to reconsider your roof thresholds and window surrounds.

 

Now get some gin.

 

If you are sitting comfortably, let us begin with the problem statement:

 

House designed and built to ready-for-external-finish stage with a number of mansard windows in 2 facades, which contain a side-to-side "through gutter" in the framework of each window. The problem is that a design for the overall guttering has not been considered, and now appears to require drainpipes between each pair of windows, which will disturb the desired appearance. How can water drainage from roof to ground be implemented without so many obvious downpipes?

 

There are different approaches - eg you could camouflage your downpipes, cover them, make them look intended, or find another route for the water. It is an advantage that your wall finish is not .. er .. finished.

 

1 - The simplest of all - make the downpipes the same colour as the render. Will be better, but not much imo.

 

2 - Cancel the downpipes.

 

a - Let the water run down the surface of the wall. I have never seen this, though it is perhaps possible eg if you clad with a vertically textured material such as black corrugated oriented up and down. Equally you could try and detail an appropriate render eg with vertical channels for your water.

It is quite common to do details where water will concentrate on concrete surfaces - eg vertical striations down from the end of windowsills on a concrete wall, which will disguise staining.

b - Do a traditional "secret" or "hidden" gutter joining up all the built in gutters across the windows, and a drainpipe at the end. That is a gutter on top of the wall with flashing underneath, or behind a slightly taller wall, with some adjustment to the bottom one or two rows of tiles and the structure. May be possible to retrofit, but to me looks a tough project to do and a long-term nightmare to maintain.

 

3 - Hide the downpipes

 

a - Clad the wall with a suitable material say 3-4 inches out, so the pipes can go behind it. That could be wood cladding (vertical or horizontal orientation), tile hung, or any other. Even brick slips.

b - Put them in and grow evergreen climbers, with over the whole wall or over sections.

c - Create some feature sections on the wall to hide them or make them look OK.

 

(Example of cladding - dimensions right and the drainpipes can be behind).

 

4 - Make the downpipes look intended. 

 

a - Can be done with cladding, eg vertical format edge-on-then-flat 4x2s (that will give a "finned" feel with gaps between fins where your piped can go), perhaps black or metal pipes with scorched larch (https://shousugiban.co.uk/range/charred-larch-cladding/) or similar. Or an artificial material. The texture / pattern will disguise downpipes.

b - Decorative as ButterCup says above. Or you could try that simply with bold copper etc pipes and lay them out to look attractive.

c - You could even go for metal slats at right angles to the wall, as used on offices sometimes as sun-shades.

 

5 - Veranda / brieze soleil

 

a - Put in a one or two storey veranda to hide most of the run. Perhaps something you can sit under. Would be a nice addition to those French Doors.

b - Make one of those wooden brieze soleil things and hide them behind it.

 

6 - Put PV or solar thermal panels on it and put the pipes behind them.

 

My take.

Ferdinand

 

[Temp]

Whats the budget like? Could you afford copper guttering and some copper hoppers? Perhaps replace some down pipes with shorter ones into another horizontal gutter running below the window? 

[ToughButterCup]

17 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

....

Or you could try that simply with bold copper ...  pipes and lay them out to look attractive.

....

 

I'll second that. Trouble is you spend a million dollars to make it look worth half a million dollars. And, in the words of our local friendly Mr Plod "   ...make it worth knicking...." 

[GrantMcscott]

I like the look of the copper gutter but can imagine waking up in the morning and they are gone 

[Ferdinand]

50 minutes ago, GrantMcscott said:

I like the look of the copper gutter but can imagine waking up in the morning and they are gone 

 

I'd investigate cladding one, and doing a half height veranda on the other with short metal drainpipes running down to the top of the veranda roof.

[GrantMcscott]

Hi

Been looking into this further. 

 

I have found this water dispersal system my Architect says it is rubbish but have anyone got any experience with them or should I buy a length and see what happens.

 

My Architects solution is to add a 20mm diameter overflow pipe sticking out 250mm and the water would overflow and hit a French drain on the ground.  I do not like the idea

 

 

 

[Ian]

@GrantMcscott

I’m not endorsing this but the way this would be solved on a commercial building would be either

A) locate the gutter slightly higher up the roof with all the downpipes located internally

or

B) Use a syphonic rainwater system of gutters & downpipes. These are very popular with designers of large buildings as they can offer big savings https://fullflow.com/syphonic-explained

Personally speaking I’m not a fan of either option because of the greater potential for leaks inside the building if anything goes wrong but I’ve inspected plenty of buildings with these 2 options which are mainstream in commercial architecture.

 

[Bitpipe]

I do think this is an architect design failure.

 

His suggested compromise will likely lead to staining of your rendering stone as the wind will blow the water back onto the surface. I doubt your render warranty would be valid either.