Hello, from two Lake District Passive House wannabees

[LakeDistrictEugene]

Hello,

 

My wife and I have just secured planning permission for a demolition and rebuild of our current 1950s house to Passive House standard. We have a great architect and are looking forward to the construction starting in the summer. Phase one is to build a two-car garage with granny annexe over. In Phase Two we relocate into that while the main house is taken down and rebuilt. In Phase Three we link the two buildings. That's the plan anyway.

 

We'll be salvaging and reusing the roof slates, and some of the exterior stonework. We also hope to keep the rubble on-site and use that to form a terraced garden area (it's a sloping site). But my first big question to the forum gurus would be how best to go about salvaging other  useful material from the current house. The house itself is not in great shape, and has no architectural merit, but it seems a terrible shame to skip some of the interior fixtures and fittings, such as:

 

• radiators
• flooring
• wood panelling (yes, really!)
• loads of double-glazed windows, including some big ones 
• a velux window
• interior doors
• staircase
• toilets

 

We wondered whether there are any charities or organisations who will rip stuff like this out prior to the house actually being torn down, and then sell on the salvaged goods? Architectural salvage yards? Any advice/suggestions welcome.

 

Eugene & Jana

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by LakeDistrictEugene
typo

[markc]

Welcome and sounds like an interesting project.

[Bitpipe]

The sad truth is that very little of that will have any inherent value beyond basic scrap metal prices.

 

We had a similar era building and could not even give away the 1500 unused and stored bricks from its original construction (original owner had kept them for a future project), never mind other bits and pieces. 

 

It has to be quite special to be of interest to a salvage yard, most stuff is not worth the effort to remove it without damage and re-condition for future resale. Also slows down your demolition and increases the cost.

 

Good idea to keep rubble etc, perhaps look to hire a crusher if that works economically to keep such material on site and avoid it being taken away and then bought back again as type 1 sub base. Just make sure it does not get in the way of the build itself.

 

 

 

 

[Bitpipe]

And welcome

 

Another passive house builder here (2016) not certified though but meet and exceed all the requirements. Quite a few here have achieved similar with different build methods.

 

Tell us more about your project! 

[Conor]

As @Bitpipe says, you'll be disappointed in what can be salvaged and reused/sold. I spent an age dismantling our bungalow by hand, apart form the bricks, haven't found a use or interest in the slates, timbers, flooring etc. All the metal went to scrap. I would have saved a lot of money and time if I'd just knocked the building over.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, LakeDistrictEugene said:

 

• radiators
• flooring
• wood panelling (yes, really!)
• loads of double-glazed windows, including some big ones 
• a velux window
• interior doors
• staircase
• toilets

Facebook marketplace and Gumtree, under "grab what you want, it's free" and hope for the best. Usually causes delays, costs and inconvenience.

Put the staircase on market place here on BH and see if anyone is building near you and could do with a temporary 'site' set  

Edited March 2, 2021 by Nickfromwales

[recoveringbuilder]

It’s amazing what people will take when they’re getting it free, we had so many off cuts of insulation during our build and didn’t want to pay for a skip to put it all in, advertised as free to uplift and had 3 or 4 people with vans filling them up!

[LakeDistrictEugene]

6 hours ago, recoveringbuilder said:

It’s amazing what people will take when they’re getting it free, we had so many off cuts of insulation during our build and didn’t want to pay for a skip to put it all in, advertised as free to uplift and had 3 or 4 people with vans filling them up!

 

Thanks, to you and all who've answered so far. I was thinking of giving stuff away in the hope of it having a second life, but it does sound like even that might be problematic.  What I really need is to stumble across a fellow self-builder on a micro budget who can make use of all the stuff ...

[Faz]

You will be wasting your time and money - fires and skips are the way forward - the more fires the better!  Proper old school.

 

I am at the second lift for a scheme of 3 and haven't had a skip leave yet.

[LakeDistrictEugene]

9 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

And welcome

 

Another passive house builder here (2016) not certified though but meet and exceed all the requirements. Quite a few here have achieved similar with different build methods.

 

Tell us more about your project! 

 

We're going with a timber-frame build solution with cellulose insulation, fabricated offsite by local specialists. Small ASHP for UFH with maybe some infrared panels for rapid top-up if required, Mixergy DHW cylinder, lots of PV and a grid-tied battery. A fairly traditional gabled design as we're in the Lake District National Park and didn't want to freak out the LDNPA planners. Current 1950 house is freezing in winter and boiling in summer (excessive unshaded glazing facing south). Can't wait to be comfy all year round! I'd be interested in why you didn't go for certification. It seems like a useful third-party check on performance.   

[Bitpipe]

9 hours ago, LakeDistrictEugene said:

 

We're going with a timber-frame build solution with cellulose insulation, fabricated offsite by local specialists. Small ASHP for UFH with maybe some infrared panels for rapid top-up if required, Mixergy DHW cylinder, lots of PV and a grid-tied battery. A fairly traditional gabled design as we're in the Lake District National Park and didn't want to freak out the LDNPA planners. Current 1950 house is freezing in winter and boiling in summer (excessive unshaded glazing facing south). Can't wait to be comfy all year round! I'd be interested in why you didn't go for certification. It seems like a useful third-party check on performance.   

 

Certification costs money and constrains choice of some kit like MVHR.

 

I know that my u values exceed the requirements and my airtightness test came in at below 0.6 ACH.

 

The PHPP modelling was as far as I went. Final SAP rating was 91 (A) so happy enough with that. 

 

What kind of foundation design are you using? Many here have used the MBC passive slab, we did a variation on that theme by building a passive basement with twin wall TF on top.

[SteamyTea]

10 hours ago, Faz said:

fires

It is illegal to burn waste timber that has been treated.

[JamesP]

10 hours ago, LakeDistrictEugene said:

 I'd be interested in why you didn't go for certification. It seems like a useful third-party check on performance.   

I am near completion of a timber frame new build ( 275sqm )  which just happens to meet Passivhaus Certification, I think a fee of £3k was mentioned earlier on a thread but I cannot find confirmation online. Maybe a useful sales consideration if the property is to be sold. 

Out total DHW and Heating (ASHP) requirement was 3891kWh over the past year. Heating about 2/3rds of that. I appreciate that figure is specific to our family needs.

Insulation, air tightness and attention to detail were the contributing factors to our build.

 

[LakeDistrictEugene]

4 minutes ago, JamesP said:

I am near completion of a timber frame new build ( 275sqm )  which just happens to meet Passivhaus Certification, I think a fee of £3k was mentioned earlier on a thread but I cannot find confirmation online. Maybe a useful sales consideration if the property is to be sold. 

Out total DHW and Heating (ASHP) requirement was 3891kWh over the past year. Heating about 2/3rds of that. I appreciate that figure is specific to our family needs.

Insulation, air tightness and attention to detail were the contributing factors to our build.

 

 

Hi @JamesP 

Yeah, maybe longer term I think certification might easily claw its fee back in added value, especially if climate change really starts to show its claws and building standards are forcefully raised by the government. Although, that said, if house performance was properly monitored (temps, energy demands, etc.) that would surely be sufficient evidence for a potential buyer. And your realised DHW and heating requirement matches our modelled values quite closely, which is good confirmation (we're 233m2).  

[Mr Punter]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

It is illegal to burn waste timber that has been treated.

 

It is not a great plan but if the fire is very hot you can get timber to burn fairly cleanly.  I guess the alternative is that it goes to landfill.

 

Many years ago we burned all the timber from a bungalow on site.

[SteamyTea]

53 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

It is not a great plan but if the fire is very hot you can get timber to burn fairly cleanly.

It is not the timber, it is the treatment used on it.

 

Don't burn treated timber.  The law is there for a reasons, don't think you are a better research scientist than the ones that did the research.

[Mr Punter]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

Don't burn treated timber.  The law is there for a reasons, don't think you are a better research scientist than the ones that did the research.

 

It is not easy to tell if timber has been treated.

 

@Faz 's "old school" approach could lead to trouble as it looks like a commercial scale site.

 

We have recently used a community timber recycling scheme, where we keep the waste timber separate from other waste and they come and pick it up and take it away.  Works out half the cost of skips.

 

We also use a firm to collect waste cardboard.  Just break down the boxes and store them in the dry.  Free collection.  I think we could have sold it had I had the time.

[Thedreamer]

So where does the unused treated timber go? I'm talking short offcuts, no useable pieces.

 

How do they extract the treated chemicals from the wood? 

 

 

[Jilly]

Freecycle is a great resource, I'm sure you will find someone to take your stuff and reuse it.

 

[Bitpipe]

4 hours ago, LakeDistrictEugene said:

 

Hi @JamesP 

Yeah, maybe longer term I think certification might easily claw its fee back in added value, especially if climate change really starts to show its claws and building standards are forcefully raised by the government. Although, that said, if house performance was properly monitored (temps, energy demands, etc.) that would surely be sufficient evidence for a potential buyer. And your realised DHW and heating requirement matches our modelled values quite closely, which is good confirmation (we're 233m2).  

 

Let's be clear, the PH certificate / plaque adds no value itself - you can build a passive standard house without the bit of paper to say so and reap all the low energy benefits. Many here have done that. The PHPP tool is useful and gives a more accurate view of space heating requirement and overheating risk than the mandatory SAP.

 

I would fully expect that marketing a house for sale as 'Passive' would reduce its value as the vast majority of normal buyers want a nice house, kitchen and bathroom etc and will be put off by anything deemed out of the ordinary or too 'eco' as it implies (incorrectly) that there is a mandatory lifestyle and mode of using the house imposed on the occupant. You would be targeting a very thin slice of the market.

 

One of the original, but sadly no longer active, members here was told as much by a surveyor who came to value his passive (non certified) new build in Wiltshire.

 

Saying that the house had very low utility bills (my 400m2 house is £1/day gas and £1.50 electric) will definitely get attention, again you don't need a passive certification to enjoy those benefits.

[Cpd]

16 hours ago, LakeDistrictEugene said:

fellow self-builder on a micro budget who can make use of all the stuff ...

I love being resourceful with materials and use large amounts of recycled stuff as I am on a nano budget (but I am in Scotland and can’t help you!) 

I like the challenge of making the materials I have salvaged  work in the places I need them. 

[Bitpipe]

57 minutes ago, Jilly said:

Freecycle is a great resource, I'm sure you will find someone to take your stuff and reuse it.

 

 

It is but on a new build site you can't have people wandering in and out.

 

The trade off is a quick indiscriminate flattening of the existing with a machine over a few days  - rough separation of  recyclables, crushables etc vs landfill and getting to a clean workable site as quickly as possible vs slow demo to preserve items of potentially zero value that will hang around site (getting in way and potentially causing a hazard to trades) all at cost to you.

 

I went through our 1950s detached ahead of demo and stripped all the copper, brass and lead piping, cylinders etc and took to recycling yard for about £150 total cash value. We kept the vintage enamelled bath (& bathroom set) but it was too heavy to move, filled up with junk and eventually a scrapper drove past and we gave it to him for free.

 

I also had 3 jumbo ton bags of clean softwood on offer (anything processed, ply, MDF etc went to dump for recycling) - ideal for kindling. Advertised a few times but had to take it all to the dump bar a few car loads that friends took.

 

One job I did do was an end of day 'skip surf' to pull out timber, cardboard, metal etc and get it into either the domestic recycling or down to the local centre. Food waste (of which there was lots from trades lunches) went into the domestic bin  / food caddy and all empty cans and drinks bottles recycled.

 

This both kept the skip free for proper waste, minimised pests (rats etc) and maximised recycling. 

 

 

[Gone West]

1 hour ago, Jilly said:

Freecycle is a great resource, I'm sure you will find someone to take your stuff and reuse it.

 

Yes, very true. When we dismantled our old bungalow we disposed of the bathroom and kitchen fittings, bricks, concrete blocks, floorboards and studwork on Freecycle and Freegle. We never used a skip at all.

[Faz]

11 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

It is illegal to burn waste timber that has been treated.

Treated timber is about the only thing I haven't burned yet.  I haven't had any on site yet anyways.

 

My only issue here is setting the Fen on fire - we are all on peat here...  It did go up on the first fire but I doused it and subsequent burns have had no effect.

 

On this one it is each to their own - I generally sit in the camp that it is better to ask forgiveness than ask permission (especially being out in the middle of nowhere) but if you want to pay to cart it away to be burned / buried elsewhere as you have shifty neighbors / want to then that's the answer.

[LakeDistrictEugene]

On 03/03/2021 at 14:09, Bitpipe said:

 

Let's be clear, the PH certificate / plaque adds no value itself - you can build a passive standard house without the bit of paper to say so and reap all the low energy benefits. Many here have done that. The PHPP tool is useful and gives a more accurate view of space heating requirement and overheating risk than the mandatory SAP.

 

I would fully expect that marketing a house for sale as 'Passive' would reduce its value as the vast majority of normal buyers want a nice house, kitchen and bathroom etc and will be put off by anything deemed out of the ordinary or too 'eco' as it implies (incorrectly) that there is a mandatory lifestyle and mode of using the house imposed on the occupant. You would be targeting a very thin slice of the market.

 

One of the original, but sadly no longer active, members here was told as much by a surveyor who came to value his passive (non certified) new build in Wiltshire.

 

Saying that the house had very low utility bills (my 400m2 house is £1/day gas and £1.50 electric) will definitely get attention, again you don't need a passive certification to enjoy those benefits.

 

I'm sure that's true today, but I'm talking about (say) 25 years from now. And I accept it's only a theory. As awareness of the benefits grow, and PH or near-PH becomes more mainstream, then having certification could add value. How about we check back in 2050 and see? ?

 

PS. There was a time when having PV on your roof allegedly reduced the value of your property, but that particular nonsense has been consigned to the dustbin.