Biomass

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Coops said:

Was also considering a product from a company called Marshall, it's a company in Derby that make Aga type cookers that run heating and HW but crucially the oven can be turned on and off instead of it being on 24/7 like an Aga or Rayburn.

Go for it, then you will wish you kept your old boiler.

 

Do a bit of general research on ASHPs.  Like all internet research, generally, the negatives reports outweigh the positives, but that is because people are often idiots and don't do research.

Here is a good example of what can happen when no proper advice is sort first (you can skip a few of the early pages).

 

[Coops]

I suspect the Marshal would be quite bad at all three of it's core tasks.

 

Still very much open to the idea of heat pumps, I'm just struggling to reconcile cost/value. GSHP are still astronomically expensive plus added cost of groundworks, ASHP less expensive but still 4x the cost of a combi or 2-3x the cost of boiler/megaflo combination. Perhaps I'm just not getting it..must be a new build thing

[gc100]

IMO biomass boilers only make sense if you are a farmer or producer of something where your left over 'waist' can be used. They are messy , dirty, not cheap and need a lot of maintenance.

If you have gas on hand, it will be the cheapest solution by far. Regarding aga's and the like - have you lived with one? I hate the bl**dy things - century old tech has no place now for me. 

 

 

[newhome]

@recoveringbuilder fitted biomass in their new build. Very unhappy with it I believe. 
 

@Declan52 also has one. 
 

[Trw144]

59 minutes ago, newhome said:

@recoveringbuilder fitted biomass in their new build. Very unhappy with it I believe. 
 

@Declan52 also has one. 
 

Biomass is no different to heat pumps - you need decent equipment and it has to be installed correctly. Fail on either of these two and you end up with a system that doesn't work.

[Iceverge]

 

This Video below gives a reasonable impression of the biomass industry I think. 

 

Simply put the idea of chopping down trees and burning them to improve the environment doesn't make sense. 

 

 

 

The cheapest route I reckon. 

 

1: Reduce your need for heat through improving your building fabric and ventilation. 

2: Gas

3: ASHP

 

The greenest

 

1. Reduce your heat demand

2. ASHP with green electricity

 

 

 

[Gone West]

5 hours ago, Coops said:

Does anyone have some advice or experience with upgrading a knackered oil combi for something greener

If you're in an old house without the option of gas I would stick with oil. I would fit an external system boiler in place of the combi it would be quieter and more efficient. Try reducing your usage by insulating, draughtproofing etc.

 

https://www.tradeplumbing.co.uk/grant-vortex-blue-external-floor-standing-regular-oil-boiler-erp.html

 

 

[Temp]

+1

 

System boiler and possibly a mains pressure H/W tank of some sort.  Spend money on insulation, better windows etc.

 

If you like gas for cooking then consider a dual fuel oven like a Britannia Range connected to a 47kg Gas Cylinder (or two on an auto change over). Cylinder Gas is too expensive for heating but the amount used for cooking is small in absolute terms. A 47kg Cylinder costs about £60 and lasts us 18 months (family of four). The oven is electric. Other companies make similar. 

 

 

  

 

 

 

[Coops]

26 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

If you're in an old house without the option of gas I would stick with oil. I would fit an external system boiler in place of the combi it would be quieter and more efficient. Try reducing your usage by insulating, draughtproofing etc.

 

https://www.tradeplumbing.co.uk/grant-vortex-blue-external-floor-standing-regular-oil-boiler-erp.html

 

 

Yeah thanks Peter, if moving away from oil is just not viable, this is what I'd go with, although I don't want header tanks so may go with a megaflo for HW and boiler for CH, noise no issue as all wil be in a small external plant room, any idea roughly what budget I'd be looking at for a supply and fix?

[Coops]

17 minutes ago, Temp said:

+1

 

System boiler and possibly a mains pressure H/W tank of some sort.  Spend money on insulation, better windows etc.

 

If you like gas for cooking then consider a dual fuel oven like a Britannia Range connected to a 47kg Gas Cylinder (or two on an auto change over). Cylinder Gas is too expensive for heating but the amount used for cooking is small in absolute terms. A 47kg Cylinder costs about £60 and lasts us 18 months (family of four). The oven is electric. Other companies make similar. 

 

 

  

 

 

 

Absolutely Temp, what you suggest is ideal we've had LPG for cooking before so I know the drill. Thanks 

[SteamyTea]

Better off all round with an induction hob though.

Back to my idea of spending money on your existing burner.

Are you in a hard water area? Is there a chance that the heat exchanger is scaled up?

[recoveringbuilder]

3 hours ago, Trw144 said:

Biomass is no different to heat pumps - you need decent equipment and it has to be installed correctly. Fail on either of these two and you end up with a system that doesn't work.

As @newhome says I have biomass, it was fitted by an mcs registered installer at a cost of £15k , I am currently in dispute with the installer and Hetas regarding its performance. I have also just had some information come my way from someone else who has the same make of equipment as myself and also installed by the same installer, she is currently having it taken out and replaced with something else, wouldn’t touch it again, if you can’t trust a registered installer to install something that will do the job who can you trust? My husband could have installed us an oil boiler at a quarter of the price but we were encouraged to go “green “!

[SteamyTea]

6 minutes ago, recoveringbuilder said:

if you can’t trust a registered installer to install something that will do the job who can you trust

Trust in education.

[canalsiderenovation]

5 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Have a word with @canalsiderenovation

He can tell you who to avoid.

 

She!!  I'm a woman.  Luckily our plumber isn't in Scotland but you are welcome to him. In fairness the heat pump seems to be the one thing we haven't had issue with in terms of fitting really, aside from sorting the settings and huge electricity bills but that's Alto.

[Coops]

13 minutes ago, recoveringbuilder said:

As @newhome says I have biomass, it was fitted by an mcs registered installer at a cost of £15k , I am currently in dispute with the installer and Hetas regarding its performance. I have also just had some information come my way from someone else who has the same make of equipment as myself and also installed by the same installer, she is currently having it taken out and replaced with something else, wouldn’t touch it again, if you can’t trust a registered installer to install something that will do the job who can you trust? My husband could have installed us an oil boiler at a quarter of the price but we were encouraged to go “green “!

Thanks for the candid reply, sounds like the whole thing is best avoided, I really hope you manage to resolve things with your installer though. I do wonder if in the race to provide RHI compliant green alternatives that some of these systems are being mis sold and installed in the wrong settings.

[Trw144]

56 minutes ago, recoveringbuilder said:

As @newhome says I have biomass, it was fitted by an mcs registered installer at a cost of £15k , I am currently in dispute with the installer and Hetas regarding its performance. I have also just had some information come my way from someone else who has the same make of equipment as myself and also installed by the same installer, she is currently having it taken out and replaced with something else, wouldn’t touch it again, if you can’t trust a registered installer to install something that will do the job who can you trust? My husband could have installed us an oil boiler at a quarter of the price but we were encouraged to go “green “!

Unfortunately subsidy driven markets also atttact a lot of people attracted to make quick buck who either don't understand the subject, or don't care to. Biomass works, but it's not the same as putting a gas/oil boiler in.  Did you get to the bottom of your issue - looking back at the post it was looking like it might be undersized?

Edited March 1, 2021 by Trw144

[recoveringbuilder]

6 hours ago, Coops said:

The boiler is like Triggers broom now, more new parts than original, and there is still a persistent leak...it's caput basically. 

Exactly what my biomass is like and I’ve only had it two years!

[recoveringbuilder]

13 minutes ago, Trw144 said:

Unfortunately subsidy driven markets also atttact a lot of people attracted to make quick buck who either don't understand the subject, or don't care to. Biomass works, but it's not the same as putting a gas/oil boiler in.  Did you get to the bottom of your issue - looking back at the post it was looking like it might be undersized?

Haven’t gotten far with it as the installer refuses to admit it is undersized, he is trying to say that the designer of the ufh and the radiators has made a mistake and put too much in. Hetas are about as much good as a chocolate fire guard, want to come out and look at the installation but can’t or won’t do any calculations! 

[Trw144]

 

6 minutes ago, recoveringbuilder said:

Haven’t gotten far with it as the installer refuses to admit it is undersized, he is trying to say that the designer of the ufh and the radiators has made a mistake and put too much in. Hetas are about as much good as a chocolate fire guard, want to come out and look at the installation but can’t or won’t do any calculations! 

A Klover inset you have yes?

[recoveringbuilder]

Just now, Trw144 said:

 

A Klover inset you have yes?

Yes 

[Declan52]

When I made my choice near 7 years ago it was between biomass and and ashp. At the time there was very little knowledge with regards installing and maintaining an ashp and plenty for biomass. That was the main reason I chose it. If I was making the same decision today it would be an ashp. 

Biomass does require more work but at the moment it suits my needs. 

Regardless of what system you choose if it's not sized correctly or installed correctly it won't matter what you pick. This is the most important bit.

[Coops]

16 hours ago, Temp said:

+1

 

System boiler and possibly a mains pressure H/W tank of some sort.  Spend money on insulation, better windows etc.

 

If you like gas for cooking then consider a dual fuel oven like a Britannia Range connected to a 47kg Gas Cylinder (or two on an auto change over). Cylinder Gas is too expensive for heating but the amount used for cooking is small in absolute terms. A 47kg Cylinder costs about £60 and lasts us 18 months (family of four). The oven is electric. Other companies make similar. 

 

 

  

 

 

 

Hi Temp and all..got a local plumbing/heating guy coming out this afternoon to discuss this setup...one thing though, does anyone know what the OFTEC rules/guidelines are in in relation to pre existing equipment not being up to current regulations? The reason I say this is because I have an old single walled steel oil tank, about 2700L in volume that seems in goodish nick to me, ok it may not be brand new, but why replace if no justifiable need to? Really just keen to get my ducks in a row in case he starts demanding the whole system is ripped out and replaced.

 

Obviously he has the absolute right to accept or refuse the job on his own terms, but I'd like to know what other people's views are on this. 

 

I found this info online which seems to be in my favour...https://www.theheatinghub.co.uk/oil-tank-replacement-regulations-guide

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Coops

[gc100]

23 minutes ago, Coops said:

Hi Temp and all..got a local plumbing/heating guy coming out this afternoon to discuss this setup...one thing though, does anyone know what the OFTEC rules/guidelines are in in relation to pre existing equipment not being up to current regulations? The reason I say this is because I have an old single walled steel oil tank, about 2700L in volume that seems in goodish nick to me, ok it may not be brand new, but why replace if no justifiable need to? Really just keen to get my ducks in a row in case he starts demanding the whole system is ripped out and replaced.

 

Obviously he has the absolute right to accept or refuse the job on his own terms, but I'd like to know what other people's views are on this. 

 

I found this info online which seems to be in my favour...https://www.theheatinghub.co.uk/oil-tank-replacement-regulations-guide

 

 

My dad has oil at his farm house. He had plastic tank that was about 20 years old. However the oil supply company refused to fill it up recently because it wasn't doubled wall, so he was force to install a new one.

[Coops]

6 minutes ago, gc100 said:

 

My dad has oil at his farm house. He had plastic tank that was about 20 years old. However the oil supply company refused to fill it up recently because it wasn't doubled wall, so he was force to install a new one.

Wow, that's pretty wild - could he not just go with another supplier or is there only one available?

[ProDave]

If your tank is within a certain distance of a watercourse it MUST be bunded (this would apply to us if we had oil here and applied to our previous house)