Water Conections

[nod]

I’m being asked size of pipe required 

25 mil

litres per second required 

Can’t remember being asked tgat last time 

[jamieled]

Who's asking? Needs a bit more info to figure it out. Pipe length, driving head etc all affect flow rate.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, nod said:

...

litres per second required 

...

 

I think that normal pressure is expressed as ' # Bar ' : generally between 1 and 2 Bar for domestic properties isn't it? If it's higher then a PRV may be needed.

Got the wrong end of this stick haven't  I?   Again ?

[jamieled]

You're right, normally most water utilities quote on a minimum tap pressure of 1 - 2 bar.

@nod 25ml/s seems low and an unusual way to spec, it would be worth questioning this.

[Thorfun]

when I first approached the local water company about a new connection they also asked me what I wanted rather than telling me we had to have. as I didn't know I put it all on a back burner but now we're getting near to needing to make that water connection application so this thread is very interesting for me!

 

ps. I have made the assumption that @nod is asking for the pipe size for the connection to the water mains. if this isn't the case then, like @ToughButterCup, I too have got the wrong end of the stick

Edited February 19, 2021 by Thorfun
added the ps.

[nod]

1 hour ago, jamieled said:

Who's asking? Needs a bit more info to figure it out. Pipe length, driving head etc all affect flow rate.

It’s the utilities company 

Im getting a quote for electric Water and Gas If applicable 

 

[Happy Valley]

Just put my initial application in today for a quote for the water connection plus sewerage and drainage.

 

Being the North West we are under United Utilities but they have not asked (at this initial point at least) what diameter pipe we require. 

 

As we are building within the garden of our current home I am hoping that most connections can be done from this site without having to go to the road and across a driveway owned by a neighbour.

[nod]

9 minutes ago, Happy Valley said:

Just put my initial application in today for a quote for the water connection plus sewerage and drainage.

 

Being the North West we are under United Utilities but they have not asked (at this initial point at least) what diameter pipe we require. 

 

As we are building within the garden of our current home I am hoping that most connections can be done from this site without having to go to the road and across a driveway owned by a neighbour.

Yeah we will probably go with NW water as they where the cheapest last time 

But these utility middle men are handy for getting an idea 

Plus they will plot out everything on a drawing 

[Bonner]

50 minutes ago, Happy Valley said:

Just put my initial application in today for a quote for the water connection plus sewerage and drainage.

 

Being the North West we are under United Utilities but they have not asked (at this initial point at least) what diameter pipe we require. 

 

As we are building within the garden of our current home I am hoping that most connections can be done from this site without having to go to the road and across a driveway owned by a neighbour.

I thought the same but both electric and water companies said I had to have a separate connection to their mains, on the other side of the road. Be prepared, it may not be as easy as you are hoping for ...

[Happy Valley]

2 hours ago, Bonner said:

I thought the same but both electric and water companies said I had to have a separate connection to their mains, on the other side of the road. Be prepared, it may not be as easy as you are hoping for ...

 

We have a right of way over the driveway owned by our neighbour for any reason to access all of the land that will be split in two. As to whether that gives us the right to dig it up to connect to services on the council owned road without recourse I don't know.

 

Apologies to the OP for the thread drift.

[Timedout]

For a single home I have never seen larger than 25mm pipe. I doubt the water company will bring it to the meter in anything bigger. For anyone where the flow rate through a 25mm pipe is not enough I suggest you are using too much water. Turn down the volume, perhaps  invest in some flow restrictors.
My current refurb project has 3/8 black alkathene coming in with a static pressure of 4bar. That gives way more flow rate than necessary. I am planning to fit a pressure reduction valve. I have done it before and 1 bar is enough if you plumb internally in 15mm. I did one place at 3 bar and plumbed all the hot water in 10mm. Worked just fine and 2 bar would probably have been sufficient. 
3/8 alkathene has internal diameter about the same as 15mm copper if you are wondering.

[dpmiller]

2 hours ago, Timedout said:

For a single home I have never seen larger than 25mm pipe. I doubt the water company will bring it to the meter in anything bigger. For anyone where the flow rate through a 25mm pipe is not enough I suggest you are using too much water. Turn down the volume, perhaps  invest in some flow restrictors.
My current refurb project has 3/8 black alkathene coming in with a static pressure of 4bar. That gives way more flow rate than necessary. I am planning to fit a pressure reduction valve. I have done it before and 1 bar is enough if you plumb internally in 15mm. I did one place at 3 bar and plumbed all the hot water in 10mm. Worked just fine and 2 bar would probably have been sufficient. 
3/8 alkathene has internal diameter about the same as 15mm copper if you are wondering.

Our pipe down the lane from the Toby is just about a kilometre. The 32mm is well deserved here...

[Oz07]

14 hours ago, Timedout said:

For a single home I have never seen larger than 25mm pipe. I doubt the water company will bring it to the meter in anything bigger. For anyone where the flow rate through a 25mm pipe is not enough I suggest you are using too much water. Turn down the volume, perhaps  invest in some flow restrictors.
My current refurb project has 3/8 black alkathene coming in with a static pressure of 4bar. That gives way more flow rate than necessary. I am planning to fit a pressure reduction valve. I have done it before and 1 bar is enough if you plumb internally in 15mm. I did one place at 3 bar and plumbed all the hot water in 10mm. Worked just fine and 2 bar would probably have been sufficient. 
3/8 alkathene has internal diameter about the same as 15mm copper if you are wondering.

I put 32mm in mine as pressure round here not so good. Only had 25mm previously in old house different area. Connection price is not much dearer at all. 

There was someone here if I remember correctly that had a 32mm connection and the water co. Fitted the wrong box. They got a hefty discount from memory like upwards of 75%. It's almost worth having the 32 connection just in hope that they use the wrong box, then you get massive discount!

Edited February 20, 2021 by Oz07

[Oz07]

Fyi I think my pressure is somewhere around 1.5/2 bar. Neighbours in old 30s place with that 3/8 supply literally cannot run a tap upstairs if downstairs was running

[Pete]

14 hours ago, Timedout said:

For a single home I have never seen larger than 25mm pipe. I doubt the water company will bring it to the meter in anything bigger. For anyone where the flow rate through a 25mm pipe is not enough I suggest you are using too much water. Turn down the volume, perhaps  invest in some flow restrictors.
My current refurb project has 3/8 black alkathene coming in with a static pressure of 4bar. That gives way more flow rate than necessary. I am planning to fit a pressure reduction valve. I have done it before and 1 bar is enough if you plumb internally in 15mm. I did one place at 3 bar and plumbed all the hot water in 10mm. Worked just fine and 2 bar would probably have been sufficient. 
3/8 alkathene has internal diameter about the same as 15mm copper if you are wondering.

My house was 80 metres from the road and I requested 32mm and it was not a problem

[Thorfun]

so bigger pipe = higher water pressure? is it as simple as that as to what you request? I presume a 32mm connection will cost more than a 25mm though?

[Oz07]

Bigger pipe more flow rate not more pressure

[Nickfromwales]

29 minutes ago, Oz07 said:

Bigger pipe more flow rate not more pressure

Will give a slightly better dynamic pressure  ( with the bigger pipe ).

 

The thing to understand here is that you will get X flow and static pressure at the mains connection point ( usually at the street ) and what you need to do is preserve that value where it arrives at your internal stopcock. So you look at the incline / length of pipe / straight or convoluted run etc and decide which size pipe is required to stave off the losses created by the pipe run. You want to get as close to the original values at the stopcock as possible, so the size is not relative to the supply, it's relative to what you need to not suffer significant losses from conveying it from street to house.

If you're digging a trench  anyways, then upgrading from 25mm to 32mm is a negligible increase in cost, and a wise investment in the future. Remember that in areas which may attract development the water authority may not improve, just add properties to, and then your connection dynamics may change. A bigger pipe makes complete sense, and is a great insurance policy too.  

[Nickfromwales]

22 hours ago, nod said:

I’m being asked size of pipe required 

25 thousand

litres per second required 

Can’t remember being asked tgat last time 

Length of run?

[Oz07]

Yep @Nickfromwales that's why I went 22mm copper over to manifolds then 15 or 10 from there. The garden tap is straight after stop cock and is fierce compared to my old place or neighbours. Around 20l per min 

[nod]

18 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Length of run?

30 mtr

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, nod said:

30 mtr

25mm should suffice. ?

[Thorfun]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

A bigger pipe makes complete sense, and is a great insurance policy too.

 

36 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

25mm should suffice.

Hi @Nickfromwales. this is confusing me. first you say a bigger pipe makes complete sense and then say that 25mm should suffice. my run is also about 30m from the road to basement plant room and I'm all for future proofing stuff so I fail to see why you would want to go for the 25mm over the 32mm if there's no downside (apart from a bit of cost).

[Mr Punter]

Water companies often fit small bore meters as standard.  Apparently they are better at recording low flows.  If you want a higher flow / larger pipe without the restriction at the meter they often have a much higher standing charge.

 

If you need a sprinkler supply, have it as a separate pipe.  Our water company like to fit a meter to these as well, just to make sure you are not nicking their water or leaking.  In this case it is well worth specifying a large meter to guarantee flow rate.  Fire supplies do no have a standing charge.

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, Thorfun said:

 

Hi @Nickfromwales. this is confusing me. first you say a bigger pipe makes complete sense and then say that 25mm should suffice. my run is also about 30m from the road to basement plant room and I'm all for future proofing stuff so I fail to see why you would want to go for the 25mm over the 32mm if there's no downside (apart from a bit of cost).

My answer to @nod is because that’s the question he asked; 

On 19/02/2021 at 13:43, nod said:

I’m being asked size of pipe required 

25 mil

litres per second required 

Can’t remember being asked tgat last time 

The size of pipe required to do a 30m run, typically, will sit at 25mm. If it was north of 50m then I’d look at upsizing, but the typical offering from the domestic water supply will be within the Fresno’s of the smaller pipe bring acceptable. 

My comments downstream were relative to the points made as the thread drifted