Vijay Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 6 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: Just to change the subject a little you say your having 65m delivered. Are you going to put all this in with your dumper or can you get the trucks up to the trench so you can shoot a couple of loads in straight of the truck. Unless im mistaken 65 m is a big amount to shuffle about in a small dumper. What are people's thoughts. We were planning to do it all with the dumper as it should be 4 trips with the dumper to empty a concrete truck. Peter mentioned exactly what you suggested on my L bar thread - http://forum.buildhub.org.uk/ipb/topic/1871-l-bars-into-concrete-foundations/ so I'm gonna look into that cos I don't see why I wouldn't be able to get a lot in that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 5 hours ago, PeterW said: I think this is the rub here - this is the differences in BS8500 and others between prescribed mixes and designated mixes. Both have the same strength class but both can potentially be different mixes depending on how they are used and where. But like @ProDave I've never seen a reinforcement in a foundation that hasn't had an RC spec for the concrete. Whilst I don't disagree with what you're saying about mixes, it's a lot easier to check now and confirm in writing from the SE than wait until you've got a hole full of the wrong stuff ... @Vijay was your house designed as ICF from the outset or are the starter bars an addition to the original design. That may potentially change the SE view. It was the SE who speced C30. Yes it's always been Polarwall ICF and the SE knows Polarwall as he's done previous jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 45 minutes ago, Vijay said: We were planning to do it all with the dumper as it should be 4 trips with the dumper to empty a concrete truck. Peter mentioned exactly what you suggested on my L bar thread - http://forum.buildhub.org.uk/ipb/topic/1871-l-bars-into-concrete-foundations/ so I'm gonna look into that cos I don't see why I wouldn't be able to get a lot in that way So I could be wrong it does happen on a regular basis, but someone's maths here is not correct, how much concrete are you planning on putting in the skip on that dumper? Do you know what wet concrete weighs? Looking at your layout that looks like a complicated setup with all the trenches every were. In my opinion you must get a huge amount of that concrete poured straight in, or you need a pump, 1 small dumper and 65cube could get all out of control reel quick. Have you got a pic so we can see the layout easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 28 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: In my opinion you must get a huge amount of that concrete poured straight in, or you need a pump, I agree, are you planning to move the whole 65m3 in the dumper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) A full dumper will plough the ground up very quick so plan your routes carefully. Don't get to close to the edge as the bank will go and then your in the shit. Put a plank back approx 1m from the edge, might be more or less depending on your dumpers skip, so you know when you hit it that's your limit. Most mixer lorries will have a few extra chute lengths on the side so get him backed up into at least 3 places along that front and let him empty what he can. How high is the skip of your dumper of the ground as in are you sure the lorry can tip into it ok. Edited February 11, 2017 by Declan52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 9 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: So I could be wrong it does happen on a regular basis, but someone's maths here is not correct, how much concrete are you planning on putting in the skip on that dumper? Do you know what wet concrete weighs? Looking at your layout that looks like a complicated setup with all the trenches every were. In my opinion you must get a huge amount of that concrete poured straight in, or you need a pump, 1 small dumper and 65cube could get all out of control reel quick. Have you got a pic so we can see the layout easier. I could have seriously got caught out here and it's my fault as I just assume very wrongly that 1m3 would be a tonne. I've only ever mixed concrete in a mixer or moved it by barrow on smaller jobs - but it's something I really should have checked and not just assumed Google tells me 1m3 is about 2.5t so that would have completely thrown the pour day out. I've got pics of the plot but nothing's been dug yet - we start this week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 8 hours ago, Declan52 said: A full dumper will plough the ground up very quick so plan your routes carefully. Don't get to close to the edge as the bank will go and then your in the shit. Put a plank back approx 1m from the edge, might be more or less depending on your dumpers skip, so you know when you hit it that's your limit. Most mixer lorries will have a few extra chute lengths on the side so get him backed up into at least 3 places along that front and let him empty what he can. How high is the skip of your dumper of the ground as in are you sure the lorry can tip into it ok. 9 hours ago, Construction Channel said: I agree, are you planning to move the whole 65m3 in the dumper? Was planning too but will be looking into what the concrete lorry can pour. The Travis Perkins guy who I'll be getting the concrete through is popping up next week so I will go through things with him. I asked a few suppliers about dropping the concrete into a dumper skip and they had no problem with it. Skip load height is 1295mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Ok then if you haven't started digging, you have plenty of time to have a re-evaluate, from your plan it looks like you are having large drive way. If this is right then you need to get that area prepared so the concrete truck can get to that edge and shoot straight in. You will need the ground completely solid as a stuck truck would be a disaster. I am going to have a stab in the dark as I don't know your dumper size, but bear this in mind you can't heap wet concrete up in the dumper so you will have a very conservative load in it and it's like driving with a bucket of custard. I reckon you will do 18 dumper loads to a truck full. 1) have you considered a pump. If you are spending £5000 on concrete £400 on a pump could be a wise investment. 2) any reason it has to be dug or poured in one go. Why not dig half and concrete and then dig the other half and concrete,you will obviously need your se to design where the joint goes but I have done many pours that didn't get poured in one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I would second getting a pump in for that volume. Will make the job infinitely easier letting you focus on the levels and the crew worrying about the concrete. Tipping from a dumper is going to be incredibly messy. If you can get the pump company to supply the concrete, they will zero rate it for VAT which will more than offset the pump cost in the short term. You'll enjoy the job with a pump, and regret going for the dumper option - but in this case you can't stop and start again. Another advantage of getting a pump crew in is to evaluate them for the wall pour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, jamiehamy said: Another advantage of getting a pump crew in is to evaluate them for the wall pour. That is a really good point, if you are going icf you will be getting to know the pump guy very well,if you have a chat and work out how many times you are going to use him you may get a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Looking at your plot layout in your other thread. http://forum.buildhub.org.uk/ipb/uploads/monthly_2017_02/Concrete.jpg.19ae38850212e87cce0c54671b07f7df.jpg and Even if you can get around the back with the dumper, it would repeatedly be going over the same narrow strip of ground that would turn to soup in no time. And you will never reach the inner sections of the pour. As others say, get a concrete pump, or someone with a decent sized digger with a large bucket and long reach (long enough to reach the back of the house while sitting at the front 65m3 sounds a lot. Is it a particularly large house or are you doing a deep trench fill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 9 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: Ok then if you haven't started digging, you have plenty of time to have a re-evaluate, from your plan it looks like you are having large drive way. If this is right then you need to get that area prepared so the concrete truck can get to that edge and shoot straight in. You will need the ground completely solid as a stuck truck would be a disaster. I am going to have a stab in the dark as I don't know your dumper size, but bear this in mind you can't heap wet concrete up in the dumper so you will have a very conservative load in it and it's like driving with a bucket of custard. I reckon you will do 18 dumper loads to a truck full. 1) have you considered a pump. If you are spending £5000 on concrete £400 on a pump could be a wise investment. 2) any reason it has to be dug or poured in one go. Why not dig half and concrete and then dig the other half and concrete,you will obviously need your se to design where the joint goes but I have done many pours that didn't get poured in one day. Yeah we planned to dig down on the front drive and get some hard standing down. IIRC the BM suggested type 1 to give a stable surface and then build up for the drive at a later date. Dumper is 2.5t but as you said, don't want to heap the concrete. I think the decision is made for me, and that's to use a pump. Last thing I need is for the pour days to go wrong...... Out of interest, I thought the footings pour should really be done in one go so there's no cold joins? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 9 hours ago, jamiehamy said: I would second getting a pump in for that volume. Will make the job infinitely easier letting you focus on the levels and the crew worrying about the concrete. Tipping from a dumper is going to be incredibly messy. If you can get the pump company to supply the concrete, they will zero rate it for VAT which will more than offset the pump cost in the short term. You'll enjoy the job with a pump, and regret going for the dumper option - but in this case you can't stop and start again. Another advantage of getting a pump crew in is to evaluate them for the wall pour. That's a really good shout mate, never thought of the future ICF pours but makes total sense to hopefully get one company to do all my pumped pours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 8 hours ago, ProDave said: Looking at your plot layout in your other thread. http://forum.buildhub.org.uk/ipb/uploads/monthly_2017_02/Concrete.jpg.19ae38850212e87cce0c54671b07f7df.jpg and Even if you can get around the back with the dumper, it would repeatedly be going over the same narrow strip of ground that would turn to soup in no time. And you will never reach the inner sections of the pour. As others say, get a concrete pump, or someone with a decent sized digger with a large bucket and long reach (long enough to reach the back of the house while sitting at the front 65m3 sounds a lot. Is it a particularly large house or are you doing a deep trench fill? I think you and others are very right Dave. I just spoke to my mate and he reckons getting the dumper round wouldn't be a problem - but I think going with the sensible and safer approach makes sense - especially in this weather cos as you said, won't take long to get a horrible surface where driving the dumper could get hairy and messy. Trench footings are 600 and 900 concrete depth (900 is over to the right of the layout). It's a fairly large house and garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 I've never looked at concrete pumps, do they tend to be from the concrete suppliers or are they separate companies who just do the pumping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 After you have done all that digging and dumpering, you will quickly see what a mess things can get in. If you get a pump pour it in one go easy. If you are going to do a semi preparation for the driveway how about using crushed concrete, loads cheaper than type one and it's going to get all messed up with all the trucks on it. Save a few quid to pay for the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Vijay said: I've never looked at concrete pumps, do they tend to be from the concrete suppliers or are they separate companies who just do the pumping? Separate companies. But work so closely with the concrete companies you could ask the concrete companies for a quote for a pump. And you could ask the pumpies for a quote for the concrete. Also whoever is taking your muck away could probably supply your crushed concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, Vijay said: I've never looked at concrete pumps, do they tend to be from the concrete suppliers or are they separate companies who just do the pumping? The pump company I used up here were happy either way - I could get the concrete or they would sort it. With the latter, they liaise with the concrete company saving some effort. When we did the floor pour, I barely slept the night before but it all went fine. These guys do it every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 When my builder had concrete delivered for my site they had a conveyor belt to distribute the concrete about, very controllable and much much better than shovelling and harrowing but I have no idea of the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 Cheers guys, So list of calls to make tomorrow: Crushed concrete prices Concrete companies for pump prices Pump companies for pump and concrete prices I'll ask about the conveyor too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Def get a truck mounted boom pump. Have a bag of cement on the day to get the pump primed. Have an area on site to get rid of surplus concrete. The pump will discharge about half a metre of concrete and water when he is finished. Mark levels in the side of your trenches. If the ground is stable, get the trenches inspected the day before the pour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 I've also got clayboard to install in some places where there is deeper foundations, so that's another thing to plan in on the pour day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassanclan Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Clayboard is a real pain unless it is well fixed to the sides of the trench, I wouldn't wait and try and do something with it on the day of the pour, if you were thinking of shoving it down the sides as the concrete is poured think again, it will float uncontrollably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 I was going to look into pre-fixing them. I didn't know it would float but I hoped it was one of those things I could do before the concrete. Do you know what's used to hold them in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijay Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 Also spoke to 1 concrete pump company today and although they weren't competitive with the concrete price, they charge £420 inc VAT for 1/2 day pumping and reckons 65m3 should go in in 1/2 a day no problem. Got to phone a few other places but definitely going with a pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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