newhome Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Dave Jones said: dont do it! If you have access to mains gas the cost of the pump alone with give you free hot water for ever ! 10k heat pump will pay for a lot of hot water. No gas here hence I have limited options and run an electric boiler currently. If I had mains gas then I would have that in a heartbeat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultima357 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 5 hours ago, ProDave said: The counter argument, is a gas connection comes with a cost, the gas work must be done by a gas safe engineer with a cost, there is an annual service with a cost. On the other hand many of us have sourced our own ASHP's and self installed them for less than the gas connection would have cost, even if gas were available. I accept if you have gas then a gas boiler will be the cheapest system, but for those that don't have gas and can't get it, an ASHP is far more attractive than other alternatives. As a new build with no gas, the difference between oil and ASHP was only about £1000, both with UFH. Or in other words, the same infrastructure but different boiler. Gas would have been £1k cheaper than oil, but the gas hook up would have easily eaten that. Remember that although the oil boiler is cheaper, you still need a double skinned tank these days and they cost as much as the boiler. Oil boiler disadvantage is that they don't modulate the output, they're either on or off. Also remember the RHI and zero servicing of ASHP in your thinking. All adds up. I chose ASHP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Ultima357 said: Also remember the RHI and zero servicing of ASHP in your thinking. All adds up. I chose ASHP. “It is expected that heating systems should be maintained in line with the manufacturer’s instructions.” So as most heat pumps will specify annual servicing an annual service is required for RHI (and possibly to maintain the warranty). If you have an UVC that needs servicing annually anyway. An ASHP service seems to be a fair bit more expensive than a gas boiler service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, newhome said: An ASHP service seems to be a fair bit more expensive than a gas boiler service. I would love to see a description of what an ASHP "service" actually is or hear from someone who has witnessed one done, as to actually what they did. All I can think of is a visual check to make sure the air flor is not blocked, a functional check, and check the pressure in the heating loop (though the latter is not really an ASHP service) Snake oil springs to mind, but I am a suspicious person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, newhome said: If you have an UVC that needs servicing annually anyway. Does anyone actually do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, newhome said: So as most heat pumps will specify annual servicing an annual service is required for RHI (and possibly to maintain the warranty). I've just looked at the RHI and on my application/portal it says you will be asked questions annually and be requested to complete a declaration. It doesn't mention an annual service rather just asks.... Is your renewable heating technology in a good working order? To make use of the warranty however there is a clause in the agreement with Alto. The Equipment must be maintained by either an Installation Partner or by Alto Energy within 12 months after commissioning and thereafter at 12 monthly intervals. Alto Energy reserves the right to require evidence of this maintenance to Alto Energy’s reasonable satisfaction before approving any warranty servicing. Edited January 20, 2021 by canalsiderenovation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultima357 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 I have to laugh at annual service on ASHP. Freedom heat pumps, a major dealer say on their YouTube training channel just to give it a look, check no blockages in the airfins and give the cabinet a clean, then spray with a protective stuff called afx90 I think. Made for boats apparently. Anyone ever service a fridge? Seriously, it'll tell you if it's feeling sick. Under the side panel is another display that I guess will give a fault code if something is seriously wrong. Most seem to be flow errors which is the rest of the system. As for the unvented cylinder, what can you do other than tweak the pressure relief valve to check its not seized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Hydrogen combi are coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Yeah. Someone said that on the last page ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 29 minutes ago, Ultima357 said: Anyone ever service a fridge? My thoughts exactly (but I have no warranty to consider). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 48 minutes ago, Ultima357 said: Anyone ever service a fridge Wasn't there, back in the 1970's, a joke about this. Punchline (said in Jamaican accent) was "(expletive deleted)ing dis custard" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 We get our commercial fridges serviced, to ensure there is no leaks, seals are ok, handles are ok, parts oiled that need to be no damage to a- z, electrical checks etc i also get my air conditioning at work serviced, so just cause you have an ASHP doesn’t mean it doesn’t need serviced. ofcouse you can buy anything any not service it but that’s a decision you make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 hour ago, ProDave said: I would love to see a description of what an ASHP "service" actually is or hear from someone who has witnessed one done, as to actually what they did. Here you go https://les.mitsubishielectric.co.uk/homeowners/heating-service-and-maintenance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Thanks @newhome Annual Heat Pump Service An Annual Heat Pump Service includes: Clean Ecodan outdoor unit Anti-freeze check Cleaning of filters Removal of any trapped air Check pressure Check flow rate and adjust where possible Check and optimise controller settings Product customer report Cleaning - obvious Antifreeze, not really a "heat pump" service but a heating system service, should not need doing unless system has been drained (then it should have been done then) Filters? I assume the basic strainer or magnaclean? Trapped air - bleeding obvious Pressure does one not keep an eye on that regularly? Flow rates? Mine would stop with an error if too low Settings? they don't change themselves. The customer has probably fiddled for ages to get the, right. Don't mess with them. See I said I am cynical. Nothing there for me other than general housekeeping and keeping an eye on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 hour ago, AliG said: Does anyone actually do this? I don't think that many people who are homeowners get gas boilers serviced either .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, newhome said: I don't think that many people who are homeowners get gas boilers serviced either .... All renters do, by law, cover for breakdown normally comes with a service thrown in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Gas Boiler at home serviced once a year too by gas safe engineers keep system operational Keep system safe I even get the car serviced! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, Dave Jones said: All renters do, by law, cover for breakdown normally comes with a service thrown in. Yes that's what I meant by home owners or more accurately owner occupiers rather than landlords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultima357 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 hour ago, TonyT said: We get our commercial fridges serviced, to ensure there is no leaks, seals are ok, handles are ok, parts oiled that need to be no damage to a- z, electrical checks etc i also get my air conditioning at work serviced, so just cause you have an ASHP doesn’t mean it doesn’t need serviced. ofcouse you can buy anything any not service it but that’s a decision you make Getting air con serviced is absolutely necessary. The internal unit needs cleaning and sterilisation to prevent mould and other nasties taking root. Very different to ASHP where the only internal product is hot water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 So having been monitoring the units for a week I now have a clearer picture. We have used a total of 339 kWh since last Friday when we took the readings at a similar time. Of this the breakdown is as follows: Heat pump 218 kWh Immersion 18 kWh 'Other' 103 kWh Some things to note - our solar got connected finally late afternoon Thursday so seems to be working now today and I can definitely monitor this over the next week too. Outside temperatures dropped Wednesday onwards and it has been a lot colder. We noticed the HP using quite a bit more over the past 48 hours than it was earlier in the week. We haven't got the house as warm as we would like and have thermostats set at 19-20. On Wednesday evening we had a powercut from 10pm through til around 5am with sporadic attempts to restore power in between so temperatures dropped in the house. It's still more than what we are hoping for but let's hope it gets better...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said: Immersion 18 kWh Why is it drawing at all? 2 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said: our solar got connected finally late afternoon Thursday This will make calculation difficult as you will not know when the PV is exporting, and how much, or when the HP is on. But the good side is it should reduce you imports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Glad you are getting there, all worth it in the end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 minute ago, SteamyTea said: 5 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said: Immersion 18 kWh Why is it drawing at all? Should it not be? Bear in mind I think at least of of this was the Tuesday when it did or tried to do the disenfectent cycle which I've now deactivated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 minute ago, canalsiderenovation said: Should it not be? Bear in mind I think at least of of this was the Tuesday when it did or tried to do the disenfectent cycle which I've now deactivated. Probably not, but as you say, there was one disinfecting cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Probably not, but as you say, there was one disinfecting cycle. That would account for half of the units used but not all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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