Pocster Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Hey all, I'm nearing (!!!) the point where I need to consider PV panels, ASHP, UFH, MHR etc. As all these things kind of interact and effect one another should I use a single company to design such a system taking all this into account?? I *presume* this would be a better approach rather than mix 'n' match approach..... Advice/recommendations welcome! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 It depends on your planned setup and your personal involvement. What is your planned setup? E.g. MCS or not? I think you would end up with a company per discipline ... not many PV suppliers do plumbing for e.g. You may be asking this question too early and need to DYOR first. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 Sure. I've done some research - just wondering if most people went down the 'one for all approach' or not. Yes; the PV stuff could be done seperately. I guess my concern was ASHP,UFH and MHV being 'linked' Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_1980 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 All my heating/ufh/DHW/MVHR was done by one company, and my plumber just all the runs from where the HW tank would be to the rooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 40 minutes ago, pocster said: I guess my concern was ASHP,UFH and MHV being 'linked' I don't think there's much experience in the UK of linking the MVHR system with an ASHP or UFH. The only real connection between them would be if you were using the ASHP to provide heat for delivery by the MVHR. I suppose you could also want to synchronise any MVHR heat supply with the UFH heating supply (maybe you do or don't want them both on at once, for example), although there's no reason they couldn't be programmed independently to work with each other in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I have one company doing UFH, boiler and MVHR. They don't do PV panels, but they don't particularly need to be done by the same people, they don't need to be integrated. I don't really think they need integration. ASHP, boiler etc are just going to heat water for your UFH. However as these are all plumbed items often the same people can do them all. MVHR could easily be done by someone else. Choices you make depend on your insulation levels, availability of gas, how free you want to be etc. I did a lot of research on this. If you have mains gas available it is usually the cheapest source of heating. ASHP may be better if you are off the gas grid as oil and electricity are way more expensive than mains gas. PV seems to be better than hot water panels as electricity has more varied uses and is more expensive and you can always use excess electricity to heat water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptoe Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I used to contract for a company that done solar PV, solar thermal, ASHP and UFH, it was really only the latter three that were interconnected, the only connection between PV and plumbing would be a solar dump, and it can be done completely separately, I'd say as long as you have same company doing ashp and ufh then it should be hassle free (if there ever is such a thing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, pocster said: I guess my concern was ASHP,UFH and MHV being 'linked' I didn't find a single company that could do all systems. Even if you found one, I think you'd fall down on the controller side, ie. to find a single dedicated control system that could integrate the functions of all the systems. I have UFH installed by the slab engineer; ASHP and cylinders from one company; MVHR self-installed with plumber connecting the wet duct heater and cooler; Solar PV from the electrician; roof vents from another company; external blind from another company; and home automation from yet another company. My plan, to be implemented soon, is to delete the various dedicated control systems and have "some" home automation sitting over the top that integrates the different systems, along with shading, so hopefully everything is working together to either heat, cool or maintain the house temp. I don't yet have all the info I need from the ASHP manufacturer to know I can avoid using their controller, but hopefully will do soon. Everything else looks relatively straight forward. Edited January 27, 2017 by IanR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 37 minutes ago, IanR said: I don't yet have all the info I need from the ASHP manufacturer to know I can avoid using their controller, but hopefully will do soon. Everything else looks relatively straight forward. What brand of ASHP do you have? If it's a Panasonic I'm happy to share what tech details I've managed to find (not much, admittedly!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Thanks for the offer, but I'm going with a Nibe. I'm told once the deposit is paid I'll have access to everything I require. I just hope their idea of "everything" is the same as mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) Thanks guys. Well I do have gas nearby but have taken the decision NOT to use it. My aim has always been PV to battery store. I guess I'll look for a company to 'pair' the UFH with ASHP. MHR can be a separate thing as also the PV and battery. So any recommendations for a UFH and ASHP supplier/installer I assume accredited is best . (MCS) Edited January 27, 2017 by pocster Because it's Friday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, pocster said: I do have gas nearby but have taken the decision NOT to use it. Why's that. I'd be on Gas if it were available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I did consider Nibe. I think I spoke to someone at ecobuild or something and they seemed very technically switched on. Their interface was head and shoulders (and several other body parts) above the Panasonic too. I just couldn't justify the additional cost (it came at a time when we were really feeling hammered on outgoings) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 29 minutes ago, IanR said: Why's that. I'd be on Gas if it were available. Finite Fossil fuel, price fluctuations. PV with a battery (LG, Tesla) etc. has to be the way to go. I'm a greenie! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) 57 minutes ago, jack said: I did consider Nibe. I think I spoke to someone at ecobuild or something and they seemed very technically switched on. Their interface was head and shoulders (and several other body parts) above the Panasonic too. I just couldn't justify the additional cost (it came at a time when we were really feeling hammered on outgoings) I am putting my faith in the recommendation from a well established company that do Installations and maintenance from small domestic to large commercial jobs and are installers for a large number of brands (although not Panasonic). I also want a cooling solution, which is off the shelf with Nibe. 32 minutes ago, pocster said: I'm a greenie! Which is an expensive ideology for a self-builder. ...and unless you're set up allows for the avoidance of mains elec for the majority of heat and water, how much greener is it really than Gas? Edited January 27, 2017 by IanR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 i'm trying to go off grid as much as possible. PV + Battery is the way forward! Ideology maybe; essential though we all go down this route ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, pocster said: PV + Battery is the way forward! How much PV and what capacity of battery storage do you plan? Are you expecting to run you ASHP in winter from PV/Battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 We had a Nibe F470 in our last house, an all in one solution for DHW, whole house ventilation and heating. The downside is that the unit was an Exhaust Air Heat Pump, had a very small compressor and whenever ambient temp fell below around 8C, it had to use immersion back up. Very expensive to run, although this could be mitigated by pairing with an ASHP outside (which would provide the back up rather than immersion). On the plus side the control / user interface was very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le-cerveau Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 If you ask Panasonic enough questions they will give you access to the 'Pro Club' this then gives you all the technical documents, very useful in working out what the system is capable of and how to control it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Not sure if you've read this guys blog, he and his family lives totally off grid, might be worth you spending a few hours ( days!) having a rad about his mix of off grid power generation kit and his storage solutions, he goes into a lot of detail. https://lifeattheendoftheroad.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Are you going to use the ASHP for both space heating and DHW. If you are, remember that they do different things, at different times and at different temperatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 3 hours ago, SteamyTea said: Are you going to use the ASHP for both space heating and DHW. If you are, remember that they do different things, at different times and at different temperatures. Hey! My *plan* was ASHP for just UFH. DHW via electric boiler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 18 hours ago, pocster said: Finite Fossil fuel, price fluctuations. PV with a battery (LG, Tesla) etc. has to be the way to go. I'm a greenie! I don't think fossil fuels are going to run out before your battery needs replaced (c.10 years). What are your space heating requirements? (Hint- if you are truly a greenie, the answer should be pretty close to zero). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 Yes I know we have fossil fuel for sometime yet!. But we do need to try and produce energy efficient housing in terms of what we lose and what we use. I'm not a greenie evangelist really. But as a new build I want to be as energy efficient and less dependant on any main utilities as is possible. So I have looked at all options; but more than happy to listen to everyone else's views and experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 We've made the policy and design decision for no mains gas in our new build. This has four tiers of saving: No Gas connection fees and these are typically ~£3K No need for Gas certified subcontract labour No daily connection charge No gas appliance annual maintenance charge This is a saving of ~£4K up front for the first 2. The last two cost us over £400 p.a. in our existing house (we could buy nearly 7,000 kWh for the same at E7 low tariff). We have got a 2-ring gas hob in the new kitchen, but that's run off a propane bottle outside. No PV because the planners said no, but we've got a wind farm and 3 solar farms within a 5km radius of our village and we will be buying green tariff electricity, so you could say that we've out-sourced the PV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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