BogBeast Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Over the years I have hired a few mini/midi diggers for various home based projects and become quite proficient at using them. I am pretty practical and have pretty much self-taught myself. I am about to embark on my first self build and I am going to need to clear a lot of land and dig a lot of stumps as well as start doing quite a lot of excavating. I could hire another midi-digger but I am thinking a JCB 3cx or similar backhoe loader maybe more useful and just as capable for the majority of excavation that I am doing. I have never driven or operated anything like it. I am looking for a couple of days of introduction and basic operation training, just to get me upto speed on the use and operation of one. I not looking for any formal qualification, but just to spend some time with a knowledgeable person and get some time on a machine before I decide to either rent or buy an older 2nd hand one. I am based in Oxford, but don't mind traveling. Can anyone point me to somewhere that can provide to sort of training I am after? Many thanks for any tips or pointers... (and any pointers to any decent 2nd hand buys ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) I bought my own 3CX and taught myself how to operate it and have got quite good, it’s been a brilliant tool over the last 4 years BUT it weighs 8.8 tons and can really carve up wet ground. I have got it buried twice and struggled to get it out. I will be selling it soon as I am running out of work for it plus having got the ground fairly level and flat I don’t want to carve it up again. They hold their price and after 4 years I will get most of my money back. I also bought a 60 year old dumper which was not good, I wish I had bought a hydraulic one as the old manual ones are much less use. Some people will be horrified at not being taught properly how to operate a large machine but it’s mostly common sense IMO. Best of luck. try this https://www.diggerland.com/individual-jcb-experience/ “Jump into the cab… get behind the wheel… and relax while our expert instructor introduces you to the controls and briefs you on all the relevant safety protocols. Learn how to drive and manoeuvre the machine within a confined space whilst excavating and moving the spoil, and then try not to panic when you find yourself left to your own devices and trying to remember which lever does what! Edited November 2, 2020 by joe90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Many of us on here bought our own diggers, mine was a prehistoric 3 ton tracked 360 degree machine. Every joint had lots of play, but it worked, everything I broke I fixed, and sold it for exactly the same as I paid for it. Working on your own site on your own you don't need qualifications. If you are familliar with 360 machines, just be aware the first time you jump in one, the controls of the back hoe on a JCB are a bit different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Maybe a day out to Digger Land? https://www.diggerland.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Onoff said: Maybe a day out to Digger Land? https://www.diggerland.com/ Beat you to it ol boy!!!!! (See above) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 minute ago, joe90 said: Beat you to it ol boy!!!!! (See above) Too many words, I skimmed it & missed the link in the middle! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, BogBeast said: Over the years I have hired a few mini/midi diggers for various home based projects and become quite proficient at using them. I am pretty practical and have pretty much self-taught myself. I am about to embark on my first self build and I am going to need to clear a lot of land and dig a lot of stumps as well as start doing quite a lot of excavating. I could hire another midi-digger but I am thinking a JCB 3cx or similar backhoe loader maybe more useful and just as capable for the majority of excavation that I am doing. I have never driven or operated anything like it. I am looking for a couple of days of introduction and basic operation training, just to get me upto speed on the use and operation of one. I not looking for any formal qualification, but just to spend some time with a knowledgeable person and get some time on a machine before I decide to either rent or buy an older 2nd hand one. I am based in Oxford, but don't mind traveling. Can anyone point me to somewhere that can provide to sort of training I am after? Many thanks for any tips or pointers... (and any pointers to any decent 2nd hand buys ) a mini digger won,t look at tree stumps -even the 14t one i hired struggled with some larger ones anything larger than about 24" dia was a big job and the stumps with roots weighed over 2-3tons --some the digger would not lift I am still pondering about buying my own -- but when a track motor for a decent size digger can be over £1000 and a slew ring --the bit the digger rotates on --will be a £3000+ job to have done --make sure you get a s/h one inspected by a digger specialist so far m ylocal digger hire company who use only up yo 2 year old diggers has been my way -- work out the jobs and plan them then hire the digger 3t taceuchi with 4buckets £269for 7days +vat and free delivery 15t taceuhci £700per week and free delivery I can hire a driver with them for £15 an hour if i want - hard to justify spend £15k on a good 3-4 year old 3t digger --and then have the repairs etc yes nice to have it lying about --but is that best use of the money ? cos then you need to insure it as well!!--the pikeys love mini diggers --they can steal and move them easy + old ones won,t have good trackers on them 7-15ton --they cannot use a van to tow it away first week you should be getting the hang of using it -- digging holes is easy -- hard bit is levelling big areas with back of the bucket and pressing it in at same time --like me remaking my roads after removing trees from them back hoes are not a replacement for a digger and will not go where a tracked digger will and could damage soft ground much worse -- gone out of favour with house builders now -- 4-6ton digger is usual choice if a builder is buying his own for all round flexibility a mini digger won,t even lift a tote bag if boom is stretched out --so very limited on moving materials about a site 3ton digger cannot lift a tote bag at full stretch Edited November 2, 2020 by scottishjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Go for it! Find a wide open space and crack on. You can't really do any serious harm as long as bystanders are far far away. I've had a 7.5t excavator ( sumitomo s160) and now a backhoe (Massey 860). For outright digging the tracked machine will probably do a job 3 times as fast as a backhoe and never get stuck. A shower and a slightly muddy field might scupper a backhoe especially a 2wd one. For big tree stumps I failed and broke a good couple of heavy duty chains with my tracked machine trying every trick to dislodge them. Don't underestimate how awkward and heavy they can be. If it was my money I'd probably hire a 13t+ (bigger the better) tracked machine and an operator to do the major excavations and site clearance. The speed with which it will happen will shock you and in terms of paying people to work for you, digger drivers are some of best value. Then by all means get your own digger for small jobs and poking around. Its worth looking for an extendable dipper for that extra reach both digging and lifting. 4wd is a must for wet ground. I'd prioritise reliability over price. Nothing more frustrating wasting a couple of good building days covered in oil, skinning your Knuckles fixing a wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Iceverge said: For big tree stumps I failed and broke a good couple of heavy duty chains with my tracked machine trying every trick to dislodge them. Don't underestimate how awkward and heavy they can be. you just have to dig down and round and break the big roots -helps if you leave the trunk about 2 ft long on stump --so you get some leverage as well -never used chains just kept digging at them --never had a fail other than not being able to lift it when we got it out .--had to push a couple out of the way cos i could not really lift them fully --and that was with a 14t volvo -lucky i have a quarry to push them into -down the 300ft drop -they make a nice lot of noise crashing down through the small trees to the bottom- one last thing --grease it every day if you want your pins and bushes to last ----alot cheaper a few cartridges of grease than trying to replace pins and bushes Edited November 2, 2020 by scottishjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Chains ? you dig them out not pull ! 3 tonner will tackle pretty much anything here you don’t need to lift stumps , drag them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 My 3cx is incredibly strong but it struggled with tree stumps, don’t underestimate them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) I had them dug until they were completely root free. The main issue was the over exuberance of a fledgling digger owner determined to get the better of a 3t Norwegian spruce butt with a very willing but ultimately undersized digger. Edited November 2, 2020 by Iceverge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Most of the trees I took out, I pushed them over as a full tree, you can push much higher up and get more leverage. The chainsaw only came out when the tree was out of the ground and lying on it's side. The only one I had trouble with was the largest one, nearly 2ft diameter at the stump. Getting the tree to move and push over was easy, but that one had hundreds of very springy roots and they just would not pull out of the ground. I ended up cutting most of those and leaving them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedreamer Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Our groundworks team removed the stumps with an attachment like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) i cleared all ours with a 3 ton digger. Really doesn't matter how big the stump is dig all way round, use the narrowest bucket to give most force to snap all the roots. Then pull it out, the object being not to lift but drag roll the stump. Leave it dirt side up to dry out for a week (or 6 months the way the weather is at the moment lol) then pull as much dirt off it as you can to save weight on the muck away. If the hole is where you will be driving then stone it up with hardcore not dirt as it will settle a lot no matter how much you track over it. I wouldn't bother a 3cx they are so much more cumbersome than a mini, more fuel, make more mess moving around, cant get into small places, expensive to fix etc etc. For a self build id hire the mini and buy a telehandler. Edited November 3, 2020 by Dave Jones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Old jcb type backhoe thing will spend more time making a mess and getting stuck buy a 3 tonne tracked machine for yourself, and hire in an 8 tonne machine for a week to do the big cleanup and stump pulling. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 3ton digger would not break 6" roots i think - even the 14t had to gnaw lumps off them before it could break them so maybe 3ton would get there eventually with a toothed bucket --not sure it would push them about and definitely not lift them out of the hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) Give Mark Walker at Walker Machinery a call, he will point you in the right direction. 01993 772255 He is just outside Witney. http://www.walkermachinery.co.uk/contact/ Edited November 3, 2020 by SteamyTea 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyP Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I've got an 2.8t takeuchi digger which I've been using to clear over grown ground and gradually do my own landscaping. It's fantastic on scrub, saplings and tree stumps of younger trees but we recently took down a sycamore with a stump around 15 inches in diameter and it couldnt touch it, spent time digging around it, pulling up roots and then gave up and cut the stump lower than ground level, drilled some holes in it, gave it a dose of RoundUp in the holes and buried it. The digger is old but it's a strong machine, I dont think any mini/midi size digger would have dealt with the stump. if you have mature trees with stumps more than 12 inches+ then you'd probably be better off hiring an operated 14t machine for a day. Also dont under estimate the headache of what to do with the stumps, they are massive and dont burn very well. You then also have a nice bomb crater to fill in as well. Another option would be clear around all the stumps your own machine cant handle and get an operator with a stump grinder in a for a couple of days which is a way to tackle stumps without having to dig them up and dispose of them - depends whether you need the stumps out becuase you are building on the ground or just for landscaping reasons, I've quickly realised leaving them in the ground is the best bet where possible. I would definitely recommend buying a used machine if you have a large site and the time and inclination to do your own work. They are extremely useful for all sorts of things and you will do bits of landscaping and work you'd otherwise not bother hiring a machine for. I think the general consensus is tracked mini digger over backhoe or JCB as they dont like wet muddy ground. I've become pretty good at operating it now, with about 100 hours in the seat, nothing more satisfying than an afternoon scraping scrub and saplings up into large balls with the digger and then going back over the fresh earth with the grading bucket and getting it nice and flat. You also arent under pressure like you are with a hired machine to do the whole job in a day or a weekend and can do as and when. You will however, like me, quickly realise a digger is rather limited without a dumper so you'll end up with one of those as well. And then within a week you will find friends in the village you didnt realise you had once word gets out you have a machines on site ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 yes i bought a dumper -but at this time hire diggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, scottishjohn said: yes i bought a dumper Big boys wheelbarrow ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogBeast Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 Thanks so much for the replies. I did set the notify me but it seem to have sent me a notification. 12 hours ago, SteamyTea said: Give Mark Walker at Walker Machinery a call, he will point you in the right direction. 01993 772255 He is just outside Witney. http://www.walkermachinery.co.uk/contact/ Thanks for this - I will give him a bell. On 02/11/2020 at 20:21, joe90 said: Maybe a day out to Digger Land? https://www.diggerland.com/ Beat you to it ol boy!!!!! (See above) Thanks for this - 90 mins should be enough to make my mind up and should be giggle. The vast majority of stumps are 4 > 6" hawthorn/blackthorn with the odd sycamore that's a bit larger. Certainly nothing older than 20 years. The area that I am allowed to build on is quite small (yay LPA..) and probably won't take much clearing, but I have another 3 acres of literally hundreds of similar trees and brush that I want to clear/landscape. I have spent more weekends than I care to mention cutting and clearing by hand (about 1.5 acres so far) and I come to conclusion that I really want a big ass machine. 11 hours ago, MarkyP said: I would definitely recommend buying a used machine if you have a large site and the time and inclination to do your own work. They are extremely useful for all sorts of things and you will do bits of landscaping and work you'd otherwise not bother hiring a machine for. I think the general consensus is tracked mini digger over backhoe or JCB as they dont like wet muddy ground. I've become pretty good at operating it now, with about 100 hours in the seat, nothing more satisfying than an afternoon scraping scrub and saplings up into large balls with the digger and then going back over the fresh earth with the grading bucket and getting it nice and flat. You also arent under pressure like you are with a hired machine to do the whole job in a day or a weekend and can do as and when. You will however, like me, quickly realise a digger is rather limited without a dumper so you'll end up with one of those as well. And then within a week you will find friends in the village you didnt realise you had once word gets out you have a machines on site ? Yup, already been told I will be very popular locally, especially if I end up with a road going 3Cx. I am reasonably sure I will buy by a machine of some sort. I just figured that a backhoe might be more useful in general considering the mix of clearing/landscaping and general ground works. I sorta figured I might need a dumper as well... Again thanks for all the replies - I will post pictures of my trip to diggerland ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, BogBeast said: Again thanks for all the replies - I will post pictures of my trip to diggerland ! Don't forget to take the kids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogBeast Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, Onoff said: Don't forget to take the kids! ? Don't have kids, but will be sure to find some to take... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, BogBeast said: ? Don't have kids, but will be sure to find some to take... No, concentrate on yourself ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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