Hello fellow Scottish builders

[DachaidhDubh]

Hi, we've got a plot just outside Oban and are looking to built a tight, well insulated timberframe house with MVHR, ASHP, UFH and some PV. We're expecting the building regs drawings any day, and then it will time to find a builder and/or timberframe company.

[Redoctober]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting. Good luck with your project but maybe the following would be useful for other members to know about.

 

Which TF company are you going with? How much of this work are hoping to do yourself etc? Have you experienced any issues getting to this point? Being in Scotland and the need for a Building warrant, did you do this yourself or did you employ some professional services?

 

Enjoy.

[Simplysimon]

hi,

normal frame or higher spec?

  On 11/09/2020 at 16:34, DachaidhDubh said:

Hi, we've got a plot just outside Oban and are looking to built a tight, well insulated timberframe house with MVHR, ASHP, UFH and some PV. We're expecting the building regs drawings any day, and then it will time to find a builder and/or timberframe company.

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[DachaidhDubh]

Not fully decided yet. At the moment 200mm is specified in the drawings. 

[DachaidhDubh]

  On 11/09/2020 at 20:36, Redoctober said:

Which TF company are you going with? How much of this work are hoping to do yourself etc? Have you experienced any issues getting to this point? Being in Scotland and the need for a Building warrant, did you do this yourself or did you employ some professional services?

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We're at the tendering stage right now. It's a choice between timber frame companies or a local builder to manufacture the frame. We have a preferred builder but he's busy, as all good builders are around here. So it might be a case of swallowing a bit of extra cost and getting the frame from a TF firm to move things along.

 

Price will determine the route we go, whether we can afford to get it done mainly by a contractor, or get the frame wind and watertight then get stuck in and project manage it ourselves. I can get on the tools but will need someone there who knows what they're doing, which I most certainly do not.

 

We used a local architect's technician to produce the drawings after designing the house ourselves.

[Gus Potter]

Sounds like you are on track for a great house.

 

Have a good look at your building warrant drawings and see how comprehensive they are. Maybe you have gone down the SER route so worth a good look at what you have to work with.

 

Keep posting and you'll get a lot of help here, you soon be confident on getting the "hands on"..better for the wallet  / purse etc and you'll have a lot of fun / reward in the process.

 

All the best.

 

 

[DachaidhDubh]

Thanks @Gus Potter !?

[Mrbehr]

Hi All,

 

I have full planning for a plot in Edinburgh. We are building a 5 bedroom detached house, with SIPS, GSHP, UFH and MVHR. I am hoping to start in the next few months pending the building work and some serious tendering.

 

Thanks to all of you for a awesome reference and community.
 

 

 

[Redoctober]

@Mrbehr - welcome to the forum. Sounds an interesting and exciting project. Be sure to ask any questions as the advice and guidance on here is usually awesome! Do you have any plans as yet which you could share ? 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

Welcome to the forum.

[AliG]

  On 15/10/2020 at 06:21, Mrbehr said:

Hi All,

 

I have full planning for a plot in Edinburgh. We are building a 5 bedroom detached house, with SIPS, GSHP, UFH and MVHR. I am hoping to start in the next few months pending the building work and some serious tendering.

 

Thanks to all of you for a awesome reference and community.
 

 

 

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Welcome, where are you building? I am in Colinton.

 

GSHP is surprising, I couldn't see how it worked due to the high cost of putting in the coils.

[SuperJohnG]

  On 15/10/2020 at 11:44, AliG said:

Welcome, where are you building? I am in Colinton.

 

GSHP is surprising, I couldn't see how it worked due to the high cost of putting in the coils.

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Another for surprised at GSHP - not economically viable in my mind. I haven't done too much research but the unit seemed horrifically expensive. 

 

For me it would be easy also as  I have a 2 acre area flat plot with no neighbours and can do a I please, so doesn't get much easier than that for installing the loops. 

[Thedreamer]

Another here that is surprised with GSHP.

 

Expensive, but could be cheaper if you have land for coils and access to a digger.

 

The equipment if in the house seems to take up a bit of room.

 

They seem to be a lot less common here compared to five years ago.

[ProDave]

I ruled out GSHP due to the cost of the pipe and brine to fill it with exceeding the cost of the HP. Even with my own digger at the time so install would have mostly just been time.

 

Also the noisy bit, the compressor would be inside the house with a GSHP.

 

I settled for an ASHP instead, a lot cheaper and the noisy bit is outside.

 

The small extra efficiency of a GSHP would never pay for the extra install costs

[scottishjohn]

 

I agree with all above-

the extra efficiency   only really works in countries like canada where you have months of -20c which is only time GSHP will have big edge  on ASHP

the uk is never going to be cold enough  long enough to be worth the extra costs 

and as you are building a very warm house anyway -- heating costs will be small 

  and if you have mains gas -then that is still the cheapest   to run and probably to install as well

 

 

[Mrbehr]

Hi All, thanks for the kind welcome.

We are building in the area of Craiglockhart.

 

The plots is about half an acre so regarding the GSHP we do have space in the garden for a horizontal loop. We can just about squeeze the 800m of pipework in the garden. The capital costs are high for the GSHP but I do like the fact it is low maintenance and should be relatively reliable. It is efficient with UFH and we have are fortunate to have a plant room or an integrated double garage to house the unit, so noise of the compressor is less of a factor.

The costs are significant as you are all aware, although you can get a £10000 interest free loan and the Renewable Heat Incentive  does pay back the majority of the investment over the 7 years. I was a bit more concerned with the ASHP in the UK given the variability of the UK air temperature and wondered how well they work in practice. If members of the forum have good experience in Scotland with an ASHP let me know and I will spend some more time considering that. I have seen some online horror stories with the ASHP and it would be great to hear some more positive feedback.

 

I am not too stubborn to be convinced to go another route. Certainly a GAS boiler would be cheaper (we do have GAS access to the site) 

[scottishjohn]

  On 26/10/2020 at 15:33, Mrbehr said:

Hi All, thanks for the kind welcome.

We are building in the area of Craiglockhart.

 

The plots is about half an acre so regarding the GSHP we do have space in the garden for a horizontal loop. We can just about squeeze the 800m of pipework in the garden. The capital costs are high for the GSHP but I do like the fact it is low maintenance and should be relatively reliable. It is efficient with UFH and we have are fortunate to have a plant room or an integrated double garage to house the unit, so noise of the compressor is less of a factor.

The costs are significant as you are all aware, although you can get a £10000 interest free loan and the Renewable Heat Incentive  does pay back the majority of the investment over the 7 years. I was a bit more concerned with the ASHP in the UK given the variability of the UK air temperature and wondered how well they work in practice. If members of the forum have good experience in Scotland with an ASHP let me know and I will spend some more time considering that. I have seen some online horror stories with the ASHP and it would be great to hear some more positive feedback.

 

I am not too stubborn to be convinced to go another route. Certainly a GAS boiler would be cheaper (we do have GAS access to the site) 

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 then you obviously have too much money - if you are going GSHP and not ASHP or mains gas.

 the gshp is not as low servicing costs as a ASHP-

your brine will need changing every few years 

and if your going to use gas for cooking -then its no brainer 

 next question you sure your ground is suitable as in can you dig down 1.5m all over it --for certain

how wet is it --and do you have a fixed price cost for it.

I have had a ASHP pump for 6 years -- I replaced the calor gas boiler with it --it  already had  underfloor fitted   -- the result was i saved over £1000 a year on heating over LPG by just changinf fuel supply 

 It has never missed a beat .

I did at first look at GSHP -- but no one would warranty for certain that tghe loops i could put in would be enough -- or that there would not be extra costs for bad ground--like shuttering if it was too wet and trenchs wanted to fall in or fill with water   or if rock breaker needed rock breaker if it was not consistent soil depth  and rock bed 

this "sueeze in" sounds lke its border line anyway -- so what do you do if the COP is bad cos you don,t have enough loop length?  as too how will it work in Uk climate --Ialready covered that in first reply  and i am in scotland 

 

[scottishjohn]

  On 26/10/2020 at 15:33, Mrbehr said:

integrated double garage to house the unit, so noise of the compressor is less of a factor.

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gas boiler -- what noise  and service will be more readily available then any heat pump 

 what we should asking is how close to PH is this going to be ,cos better you get it ,the less imporatant cost of heating is

there are people with very well insulated house using UFH and solar PV to run immersion heater on tank -which will do all UFH most of the year and a little top up with cheap rate electric -- thats could  probably cheapest all round inc equipment costs 

 

 so a lot more to look at depending on your build 

your heat loss calculation and required heat load will guide you on this 

 "fabric first"  is the way to build 

so make the house so warm you can heat it with a candle +you don,t need fancy systems

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by scottishjohn

[AliG]

  On 26/10/2020 at 15:33, Mrbehr said:

We are building in the area of Craiglockhart.

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Not far from me, I must have missed he application.

 

  On 26/10/2020 at 15:33, Mrbehr said:

I was a bit more concerned with the ASHP in the UK given the variability of the UK air temperature and wondered how well they work in practice.

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Most of the issues are due to putting ASHP in older poorly insulated houses, shouldn't be an issue in a well insulated new build.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by AliG

[SuperJohnG]

  On 26/10/2020 at 15:33, Mrbehr said:

I have seen some online horror stories with the ASHP and it would be great to hear some more positive feedback.

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Most of these horror stories are generally due to bad installation and setup more often than not by a 'certified' installer. As per @AliG usually they were installed where they shouldn't have been and most likely  (I'm surmising here) by being oversold on the RHI.  I couldn't count the endlessly good reports I have heard on here about ASHP systems, I've only heard one or two bad and generally they were issues with one specific manufacturer.  

 

I good question asked was what level of insyaltuon and airtightness are you aiming for. That will help give us an idea of a direction to guide you. 

 

P.s. havent read one thread on here about a GSHP maybe because I'm not looking but it certainly seems like a system which never hit its mark to become economical in the mainstream 

[scottishjohn]

  On 26/10/2020 at 19:57, SuperJohnG said:

P.s. havent read one thread on here about a GSHP maybe because I'm not looking but it certainly seems like a system which never hit its mark to become economical in the mainstream 

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not for uk --as lowest normal temp can be handled by ASHP

 if in Canada or nothern europe where months of -20c --then GSHP will be the way to go  due to better COP from ground which temp is more more stable than air

Edited October 26, 2020 by scottishjohn

[ProDave]

-10 night temperature is common here in winter and my ASHP still works okay.

 

[scottishjohn]

  On 26/10/2020 at 21:03, ProDave said:

-10 night temperature is common here in winter and my ASHP still works okay.

 

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thats the point in canada its -20 non stop for months

 not many days when its -temp for long 

Edited October 26, 2020 by scottishjohn

[FraserK]

I've been lurking on the board for a while and posted a couple of Q's that have been helpfully answered.

We're in the process of finalising the build of a house on the Isle of Mull.  Our original plan would have been to self-build but with Covid, islands in lockdown with the nearest decent rental property we could find was in Speyside we've had to look at all options. Some of the plots we've dismissed due to problems with flooding / drainage or power supply problems potentially adding £££££ to the build cost.

Having enquired with a local builder, turns out he was in the process of getting PP for a small development in a great location - plus benefits of mains sewerage and high speed broadband. Original PP was for a mix of 3 and 5 bed houses, but we've opted to modify the smaller 3-bed design to a 2-bed and on a larger plot with a matching garage/workshop. PP and warrants due to complete in next week with work starting almost immediately.

Construction will be timber frame with ASHP.

The builder is doing 3 similar builds at once so hopefully house will be wind and watertight before Xmas and hopefully complete for March.

[ProDave]

That sounds like an extremely optimistic build time, particularly given shortages of building materials at the moment etc.  Best of luck and I hope I am proved wrong.

 

If you are only looking to rent accommodation over the winter have you looked at getting a long lease on what is normally a holiday rental? plenty of those on Skye.