TerryE Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 We have a Wickes Kitchen fitted by ourselves. The product is excellent BTW, but that's really the subject of another post. Jan has specified a split double hob -- four induction rings on one hob unit to the left and 2 gas rings on the other too the right, positioned side-by-side over a 900mm unit with draws underneath. She chose a work surface that is supplied by a subcontracted worktop specialist Sheridan - Apollo Slabtech. This is a 30mm deep mineral filled polyacrylate / polyester resin worktop that is templated and fitted by the supplier. This all looks good on the Wickes designer's CAD system and visualisations, and the Sheridan fitters are coming to make the template on Thursday. However this layout has created two issues during build: Sheridans require a minimum of 120mm between the two cut-outs rather than the 50mm specified in the Wickes layout. Luckily after a bit of head scratching we were able to lose this extra 7mm by creating a column effect either side of the unit as you can see in the picture below. Luckily had the room to move the units and wall cabinets the extra 86mm that this added so whilst not as clean a line as I would have preferred, it works and I doubt whether any visitor will regard this as anything other than a design feature. The joint between the two hob units is in the middle of the 900 unit, and therefore not directly supported underneath. The creates a structural weakness between the hobs. (See second picture). What I've had to do is to replace the unit front with CLS machined down to 32 × 80mm and a 16 × 60mm area removed from the top rear to create an L shaped profile that the hobs sit in. However, I am still concerned that this will give inadequate support, in particular against any point loading at the front of the work surface, so my current thinking is to remake this front piece with an 30mm L section of 3mm rolled steel angle CT1ed onto the wood to form a composite as shown here. However, I would appreciate any thoughts / comments / sanity check, because I need to implement this before the worktop is installed in 3 weeks time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Hmm, interesting one. Is there any way that the support along the front could be a longer piece, built into the units either side? That would gain the advantage of becoming a built-in rather than a simply-supported beam. Secondly, why CT1? I'd be more inclined to just bolt it together, or maybe epoxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandAbuild Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Do the hobs sit on the unit frame or the work surface Terry? It looks like they will sit on the work surface, which in turn sits on the frame. In that case reinforcing the front rail as you suggest should give more than adequate support if it's a 30mm steel angle. It should support the weight of a major pot of stew anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, RandAbuild said: Do the hobs sit on the unit frame or the work surface? Richard, both hobs have a glass top surface which sits on the work surface. The gubbins underneath is set back just about 15mm and hangs from the top surface and is 47mm deep. The work surface is 30mm, so the gubbins drops down about 17mm below the bottom of the work surface. So we will have a what is in effect a composite beam of roughly 50×50mm polyacrylate / polyester resin, 30mm wood faced in 3mm steel and a 3mm steel bottom plate. Hopefully this will be stiff enough and strong enough under load to maintain the integrity of the worktop without subsequent catastrophic failure. Rob, I am continuously bonding the wood to the steel because I want this composite beam effect and a hybrid polymer like CT1 is better for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryder72 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 This doesnt make sense. AFAIK Slabtech is fine fabricated with 50mm bridges between cutouts. We have fabricated worktops 12mm thick with 50mm bridges. It is normal for these types of hobs to be butted together with a joining bracket. Is that approach not an option for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 hours ago, TerryE said: We have a Wickes Kitchen fitted by ourselves. Thank you, thank you, thank you. @MrsRA has a series of Kitchen designers in her sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 hours ago, recoveringacademic said: Thank you, thank you, thank you. @MrsRA has a series of Kitchen designers in her sights. Seriously, she should talk to Jan. The doors and panels for all of the major kitchen suppliers are made by a couple of companies. Ditto the carcasses. Wickes kitchens just use the standard suppliers. Ditto the hinges, closers, drawer units, etc.; these are top notch suppliers such as Blum. I can't fault the quality here. The major decisions that you have to make are: Self fit or trade / subbie fitted. IMO, anyone who has very basic carpentry skills can fit a kitchen, though knowledge of techniques such as scribing a profile and a level of adeptness with a table saw or the like help a lot, as well as tools such as a decent chopsaw. Fitting can be ~30+% of the total cost (and often a lot more if the fitter is supplying you the kitchen at "trade" prices, but actually buying it a 30-40% discount). If you have disposable time (as we as pensioners have) then I would recommend that you seriously consider doing a lot of work yourself, especially if you can get a couple of days help from a friendly chippie for the more difficult bits. Flatpack or pre-assembled carcasses. In terms of the finished kitchen, IMO there is nothing to chose here. Flatpack is going to add a few days assembly time, but same test as above. If you do go pre-assembled then you have to get JiT delivery because storing assembled units is a total pain in the arse. I really don't think that anyone looking at our kitchen would think anything other than "quality product". I just can't see why paying a 50% mark-up to some fancy kitchen designer for nowt material makes any sense. OK, if both partners are working and doing 50+hrs a week then your decision might be a different sweet spot, but you two are in a very similar situation to us 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I ended up modding the hell out of one of our cabinets. Originally the induction hob was to go to the right, centred over where two cabinet sides meet which would have needed modding. SWMBO then decided she wanted it dead centre of the 1000mm unit. Meant I didn't have to mod the cabinet sides BUT it put the hob switch closer than 300mm. As I'd run everything in 20mm steel conduit I WASN'T changing it! The back panel was halved neatly with extra battens added and comes out via a couple of screws. I did route a 5mm gap in the horizontal member to allow better ventilation to the hob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 @Onoff, we've got full with drawers under the twin hobs. If my design authority would allow me to remove the top one and put in a dummy then it wouldn't be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Sorry bit late to this thread but I would do exactly what you suggested. Either that or a "flitch" beam construction (steel strip between two timbers). Interesting comments regarding Wickes. I keep gravitating back towards them as they seem to tick all the boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 We've also gone with a Wickes kitchen, it was really between them and B&Q and the latter were really not impressive at all. Would have been nice to have had more options, but we didn't like anything at Howdens and weren't prepared to drive hundreds of miles to the nearest IKEA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 15 hours ago, ryder72 said: This doesnt make sense. AFAIK Slabtech is fine fabricated with 50mm bridges between cutouts. We have fabricated worktops 12mm thick with 50mm bridges. It is normal for these types of hobs to be butted together with a joining bracket. Is that approach not an option for you? How are 'domino' arrangements normally done? Like this or do the individual units sit within some sort of chassis that fits in a single worktop hole? We did look at dominoes so we could keep a gas option but they cost even more than the Neff 5 hob flexi-induction we've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetE Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 16 hours ago, ryder72 said: This doesnt make sense. AFAIK Slabtech is fine fabricated with 50mm bridges between cutouts. We have fabricated worktops 12mm thick with 50mm bridges. It is normal for these types of hobs to be butted together with a joining bracket. Is that approach not an option for you? Our kitchen designer also specified a 50mm gap, but when we checked with the installer it would seem that we need a120mm gap between hobs because of the heat. The hobs are different brands, AEG induction and an Ikea domino gas hob (which was a very reasonable £150) so they cannot easily be joined. I suspect that even if they were joined we would still need some kind of bracing at the front as the hole would be pretty big! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Apologies for my late arrival I'd get a simple aluminium plate say 120 x 500 x 4mm and bond this to the underside of the two pieces of worktop. Use sikaflex as it's a better adhesive than CT1 imo, full bed on both surfaces combed at 90 degrees to each other for 100% bond / contact. Clamp the front and back whilst curing and it'll be like one piece. To compliment this, run an Alu angle behind the drawer unit ( front top rail ) again bonded with sikaflex. Combined with the resin, to complete the gap filling in the actual worktop material, I'm sure this will be sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryder72 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 13 hours ago, daiking said: How are 'domino' arrangements normally done? Like this or do the individual units sit within some sort of chassis that fits in a single worktop hole? We did look at dominoes so we could keep a gas option but they cost even more than the Neff 5 hob flexi-induction we've got. Multiple brands approach this differently but I will stick with the most popular options If they are different makes, a 50mm bridge and then appropriate cutouts for individual hobs. If they are Miele domino hobs, connecting strips are available and a single large cutout to encompass all domino hobs is made and hobs dropped in with connecting strip between hobs. Miele however does not allow a domino to go in with a normal hob. Siemens/Neff/Bosch - Individual cutouts or combined single cutout with connecting strips. Domino hobs can be combined with normal hobs provided the normal hobs are of the right specification suitable for combining with dominos. Domino hobs arent a cheap option but they do offer a degree of flexibility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryder72 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 13 hours ago, JanetE said: Our kitchen designer also specified a 50mm gap, but when we checked with the installer it would seem that we need a120mm gap between hobs because of the heat. The hobs are different brands, AEG induction and an Ikea domino gas hob (which was a very reasonable £150) so they cannot easily be joined. I suspect that even if they were joined we would still need some kind of bracing at the front as the hole would be pretty big! If different brands, individual cutouts are the only solution. I have checked the tech spec on Apollo Slabtech and it does mention 120mm bridge. Somewhat surprised by this as a number of polyester alternatives do not stipulate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Heat deflection from the gas hob is a problem some don't appreciate. Most hobs, however, only require 55mm from the splash back / rear elevation so it's hard to understand the logic, but when you tally up the possible opposing heat deflected from the adjacent hob the factors soon start multiplying. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryder72 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 25 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Heat deflection from the gas hob is a problem some don't appreciate. Most hobs, however, only require 55mm from the splash back / rear elevation so it's hard to understand the logic, but when you tally up the possible opposing heat deflected from the adjacent hob the factors soon start multiplying. . Nick - when you refer to heat deflection, you mean heat from the splashback or heat deflected downwards from the hob onto the worktop? Corian also specified a 100mm gap from splashbacks behind gas hobs but this is to prevent scorching which is a known problem with Corian and I expect with similar polyester based worktops. However Corian doesnt have this problem with downward heat deflection from pans. I can only imagine this is because Corian is only 12mm thick whereas polyester based worktops are usually 30mm thick so the greater volume of the material (I am sure someone will correct me as to the correct terminilogy) will make it prone to overheating. However, this logic should also apply to quartz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 This is the one gotcha in the wings. The Slabtech FAQ also mentions a minimum 120mm behind gas hobs, however this doesn't square with examples in the Wickes showroom where a ~500mm deep gas hob is in a ~600mm work surface -- that is with 50mm front and back. We will have a heat resistant glass splashback that's rated up to 400°C. I don't think scorching is going to be a material risk in our case as we'll generally be using the induction hob for an longer duration cooking. The gas hob will tend to be used for cooking that needs fine and rapid heat control, e.g. making sauces, scrambled eggs, etc. But the Sheridan guys are coming to template the worktop tomorrow PM, so we can discuss this all with them then. BTW, the steel 30×30 angle worked fine. I used steel rather than Alu because of availability / lead times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, ryder72 said: Nick - when you refer to heat deflection, you mean heat from the splashback or heat deflected downwards from the hob onto the worktop? Corian also specified a 100mm gap from splashbacks behind gas hobs but this is to prevent scorching which is a known problem with Corian and I expect with similar polyester based worktops. However Corian doesnt have this problem with downward heat deflection from pans. I can only imagine this is because Corian is only 12mm thick whereas polyester based worktops are usually 30mm thick so the greater volume of the material (I am sure someone will correct me as to the correct terminilogy) will make it prone to overheating. However, this logic should also apply to quartz. Thermal mass ?!? Deflected heat in all of its guises Outward / sideways is the one given most consideration when siting two appliances alongside each other. Ultimately it's The manufacturers installation instructions ( MI's ) which overrule any guidelines, but when you have one appliance chucking heat out to the left and another back towards that appliance, you have to factor for 0% redundancy aka worst case ( both being used at the same time at full wallop ). Dimensions for rear 'clearance' should always be taken as per the MI's. Never assume fitting the hob centrally will suffice . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 On 17/01/2017 at 08:08, Crofter said: We've also gone with a Wickes kitchen, it was really between them and B&Q and the latter were really not impressive at all. As I said, I can't fault the kit itself, but I suspect that a lot of the issue avoidance is down to the competence of the kitchen designer. We were impressed with ours. We didn't have a single issue with the Bill of Materials, though we did need to order the extra pelmet/capiital to get around this extra 70 mm issue. But again Wickes supplied this free in a two-day turn around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MrsRA Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 On 16/01/2017 at 19:09, recoveringacademic said: Thank you, thank you, thank you. @MrsRA has a series of Kitchen designers in her sights. OK. So I 'could' like the Wickes 'Sofia' range as it has the rounded-end's, handle-less look I'm hankering for; but the colours are soooo boring. The kitchen design I have fallen in love with has some blocks of units fronts in burnt orange/some in neutral tones; however @recoveringacademic is jibbing at the £20k+ price tag for some reason. What's a girl to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 13 minutes ago, MrsRA said: What's a girl to do? Smile graciously, and then agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundtuit Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, MrsRA said: The kitchen design I have fallen in love with has some blocks of units fronts in burnt orange/some in neutral tones; however @recoveringacademic is jibbing at the £20k+ price tag for some reason. What's a girl to do? Ahh. Looks like you've fallen in lust, not love. Get down to Wickes for your kitchen, and spend the difference on proper romance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, MrsRA said: What's a girl to do? convince him that you could sell it afterwards. I hear that one a lot around here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now