Price guide

[scottishjohn]

even poly type ICF builds have to be "tanked "below ground level  -- so as @Russell griffiths says no need for extra cost in waterproof concrete

 yes the woodcrete is usually "parge" coated  (cement render) , to seal everything up -- you can get stick on house wrap - but think that will be more expensive

 you looking too much at little details    at this time 

you can channel inside walls for wiring and other services ,then hard plaster the inside - -very common on the continent 

 wtch the videos and you will see 

 

 

[bradders3109]

12 hours ago, Andy H said:

distribution cost from Poland

Andy I understood that Thermohouse was from Ireland but maybe wrong.

 

Izodom are from Poland and you are quite correct the shipping costs are nearly £2000 but the block price counter balances this.  My concern is that they don't have BBA certification as they are covered by EU certification.  I've emailed my local building control to see if this is an issue with us having left the EU.

 

My Durisol quote came in and was double the most expensive EPS block and three times the cost of Izodom (Not including the shipping costs).

[FM2015]

2 minutes ago, bradders3109 said:

Andy I understood that Thermohouse was from Ireland but maybe wrong.

 

Izodom are from Poland and you are quite correct the shipping costs are nearly £2000 but the block price counter balances this.  My concern is that they don't have BBA certification as they are covered by EU certification.  I've emailed my local building control to see if this is an issue with us having left the EU.

 

My Durisol quote came in and was double the most expensive EPS block and three times the cost of Izodom (Not including the shipping costs).

BBA is a funny one.  Some warranty providers insist that everything covered by their warranty has BBA others don't.  Plenty of ICFs have BBA but all have some sort of third party certification.

 

To show how disjointed the process is, take jackon thermomur.  Its been used quite a lot over the last few years and its use is increasing.  Only got it's BBA accreditation in October 2020 and the accreditation only covers above dpc walls.  Nearly every build we have been involved with that uses jackon has a basement.  All those basements are still covered by a third party warranty.

 

I posed the question to a group of architects and engineers and their response wasn't too surprising; it's a high level way of presenting risk to insurers.  If all products have BBA, it means that all insurers, are appraising the same risks.  Just because we have left the EU, some providers still recognise EU accreditors, which is just how it was a year ago.

 

A bit shocked by your quotes....past experience would have had durisol at the lower end.  Timber is shooting up in price though with pressure on supply and demand which might be a factor.

[Andy H]

3 hours ago, bradders3109 said:

Andy I understood that Thermohouse was from Ireland but maybe wrong.

 

Izodom are from Poland and you are quite correct the shipping costs are nearly £2000 but the block price counter balances this.  My concern is that they don't have BBA certification as they are covered by EU certification.  I've emailed my local building control to see if this is an issue with us having left the EU.

 

My Durisol quote came in and was double the most expensive EPS block and three times the cost of Izodom (Not including the shipping costs).

Sorry my error you are correct Thermohouse is from Ireland. I was getting mixed up with Econekt in Scotland who supply Izodom from Poland (This was my most expensive quote)  I found Thermohouse  responded quickly to my calls and I attach a price sheet they sent me for their products. The price list is all priced in cost per meter squared. Whilst the prices look low there is a high distribution cost and I was quoted around £1500 for 110m2. Factoring in the distribution I found the total price similar to Nudura. 

2020 Guide Rate .pdf

[bradders3109]

My compiled quotes are as below:

 

 

*Nudura are requoting because there is now an additional wall to be constructed in ICF.  I will post the new quote when it comes in.

 

The amount of concrete required varies between 21m3 and 24m3.  This is either down to misinterpretation of the drawings or different size cores in the ICF.

 

The build is an extension to a detached house as per the attached diagram with ICF highlighted in blue.

 

 

ICF Design.pdf

[Sree]

On 17/09/2020 at 12:49, ZacP said:

So all of the ICF quotes are in. I've tried to standardise them as much as possible, but some have interesting notes which I'll detail below. Putting this up for others who might find it useful in deciding their supplier or working out costs, but also for any feedback or thoughts from the more experienced (that's all of you!).

 

Our build is approx 220sqm footprint and 260sqm of wall.

 

Durisol includes a 22% discount that they put on without negotiation 

Beco Walform have quoted for the 375 but say the 313 would save around £8K (inc vat) and only increase the U value to 0.165 (though the published value is 0.18) so much better value

Nudura say that a U value of 0.24 is plenty and anything more gets really expensive

Velox includes the steel that goes inside the wall.

 

I've included a price of concrete at £100+vat/cbm. This is a little on the high side, but it gives comparison.

 

None of the quotes include rebar (if required [except Velox]) - would have to wait for SE calcs. Can anyone suggest an amount (in £ or quantity) that they used on their build?

 

I know that we'll be able to reclaim the VAT on a new build but were costing things as a worst case scenario.

 

Labor to construct I'm guessing at 9 days for 1+1+me: 2 days build,  1 day pour (lower ground). 3 days build 1 day pour (upper ground). 1 day build, 1 day pour (gables, finishing off etc).

 

 

 

Hope that helps someone and thanks for your thoughts!

Hello, I’m planning to extend my home by about 1200 sq ft per floor. Planning approval submission is next week. I’m project managing it and don’t plan to DIY anything but the painting job so will be relying on subcontractors. Most probably will go the ICF route and have been in discussions with Nudura rep and their contractors. I plan to reach out to Amvic this week. My architect & his structural engineer partner are unsure about ICF so I need to find a structural engineer who’ll do this. The ICF system cost comparisons here is very useful.

 

Has anyone done any comparisons re ICF vis-a-via insulated brick and block cavity wall? I’m not inclined to use cavity wall construction mainly to avoid “drama” from tradesmen but don’t want to be shocked later if it turns out to be more cost effective. 

[Russell griffiths]

Standard brick cavity for an extension will be cheaper. 

What is the external finish going to be. 

[scottishjohn]

so why not SIPS for the extension?

 another choice for you 

[gavztheouch]

Anyone have any reasons for not looking at https://www.polarwall.co.uk

 

They use better insulation and they are manufactured in the UK. I was going to use nudura but I quite like the look of their system, nobody seems to talk about them much on the forum just wondering if I am missing an obvious flaw in their system.

[Andy H]

8 hours ago, gavztheouch said:

Anyone have any reasons for not looking at https://www.polarwall.co.uk

 

They use better insulation and they are manufactured in the UK. I was going to use nudura but I quite like the look of their system, nobody seems to talk about them much on the forum just wondering if I am missing an obvious flaw in their system.

I am in the process of selecting my ICF supplier.

 

I watched the video on the polarwall site. I thought it raised some interesting points to consider and am going to give it some further consideration. 

There claim that XPS is better than EPS needs to be questioned. I have previously done a bit of reading on the subject and whilst it may have more compresive strength, absorb water more slowly and a slightly better insulation value the compresive strength is not relevant in its use as an ICF block, it holds onto the water it absorbs more than eps(leading to lower R value) and tends to be a bit more expensive. You could check out this link for more information https://innovativebuildingmaterials.com/eps-insulation-vs-xps-insulation/

 

Like you I would be interested to hear any feedback from members who have used Polarwall.

 

Have you had a quote or estimate from them?

[Chanmenie]

Watching thread with interest as I am also considering ICF for my new build.

 

I have not seen R-Wall https://www.r-wall.co.uk/design-with-r-wall

mentioned on the forum has anyone had experience of it.

[NickK]

@Chanmenie I just looked at R-Wall and it looks really good. Given its local is only a bonus (although Logix is also uk based, isn’t it?). I also look forward hearing about people’s experiences.

[FM2015]

Some would say r wall is a more difficult product to install with no experience.  Polarwall, of which r wall is a clone, would be the same.

 

We have found r wall to be the upper end of the price bracket but it depends on where you are and who's installing it.

[NickK]

@FM2015 I’m surprised about the higher price bracket considering the block needs to be assembled on site. Do you think down to it being XPS or being made in the UK?

[FM2015]

@NickK, sorry, thats based on supply and install experience.  Block per M2 might be less expensive but more labour.

 

I am a contractor so I see it from a different perspective.  To be honest, we stay clear of the systems you have to assemble on site but that is just us.

[Russell griffiths]

Ive said this till I’m blue in the face

to pick your choice of icf supplier go to jobs where it is being used and pick it up, look at it shake it work out how it will perform, ask the lads installing it. 

 

Whatever you do don't choose it by price and don’t choose it by what the rep tells you. 

Some of them would sell their granny if they could make a quid and some of them are just downright liars. 

 

My rep took me to a site on a pour day, he was obviously confident in his product. 

I asked him loads of questions and he basically said it was for me to do my homework, not for him to push his product. 

He told me not to bother asking if there was any movement in the price as there wasn’t, and for me to call him once I had done my research if I wanted to place an order. 

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Ive said this till I’m blue in the face ...

 

?

Me too dad. 

[Chanmenie]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Ive said this till I’m blue in the face

to pick your choice of icf supplier go to jobs where it is being used and pick it up, look at it shake it work out how it will perform, ask the lads installing it. 

 

Whatever you do don't choose it by price and don’t choose it by what the rep tells you. 

Some of them would sell their granny if they could make a quid and some of them are just downright liars. 

 

My rep took me to a site on a pour day, he was obviously confident in his product. 

I asked him loads of questions and he basically said it was for me to do my homework, not for him to push his product. 

He told me not to bother asking if there was any movement in the price as there wasn’t, and for me to call him once I had done my research if I wanted to place an order. 

 

 

And what did you go for Russell ?

[jack]

9 minutes ago, Chanmenie said:

And what did you go for Russell ?

 

Brick and block? 

[Andy H]

23 hours ago, NickK said:

@Chanmenie I just looked at R-Wall and it looks really good. Given its local is only a bonus (although Logix is also uk based, isn’t it?). I also look forward hearing about people’s experiences.

Logix is an American product, the distributor in the UK is Build Homes Better https://buildhomesbetter.co.uk/ whom are also the distributor for Isoquick the Insulated slab product.

 

Lasst week I attended  2 x 2 hour web training sessions held by Logix America. They were very good covering all the main points most of which is relevant to other suppliers ICF blocks. I was able to get questions I had answered during the web session.

 

Logix is sitting high on my list as ICF choice but I have not yet commited and am waiting on Covid restrictions lifting so I can get to a site to handle the product as recomended by @Chanmenie and others.

[Andy H]

22 hours ago, NickK said:

@FM2015 I’m surprised about the higher price bracket considering the block needs to be assembled on site. Do you think down to it being XPS or being made in the UK?

I attach price list I received from Polar wall yesterday. I got a sense they could be flexible on price. I spoke at length to the Company yesterday (Alan Wheeler) and apart from him obviously promoting his product picked up useful information that was generally applicable. The most interesting thing was that concrete doesnt need to include a water proof additive if it is made with 350kg of cement and a water: cement ratio of less than 0.45. With this spec it will be waterproof. He quoted  an old BS 8007 standard. I have yet to verify this but if true would give me a saving as I was planning to use waterproof concrete in my below grade walls.

Price list 2020-doc.pdf Price list PLUS 2020-doc.pdf

[scottishjohn]

Izodom -- was that from Econekt- the uk agent or direct from a supplier in poland?

[FM2015]

34 minutes ago, Andy H said:

I attach price list I received from Polar wall yesterday. I got a sense they could be flexible on price. I spoke at length to the Company yesterday (Alan Wheeler) and apart from him obviously promoting his product picked up useful information that was generally applicable. The most interesting thing was that concrete doesnt need to include a water proof additive if it is made with 350kg of cement and a water: cement ratio of less than 0.45. With this spec it will be waterproof. He quoted  an old BS 8007 standard. I have yet to verify this but if true would give me a saving as I was planning to use waterproof concrete in my below grade walls.

Price list 2020-doc.pdf 285.33 kB · 2 downloads Price list PLUS 2020-doc.pdf 294.38 kB · 2 downloads

I'm not sure what others have experienced but although we know that concrete of a certain spec and width should be impervious to water HOWEVER I've not met a a warranty company that would accept it as a waterproofing method.  Additive isn't necessarily the answer as discussed in several places previously.

[Trw144]

I appreciate it has many variables, but has anyone have any info on costing ICF when using a contractor as opposed to DIY? Had a ball park price back from nudura and it seems it could be quite a potential saving vs timber frame.

[scottishjohn]

20 hours ago, Trw144 said:

I appreciate it has many variables, but has anyone have any info on costing ICF when using a contractor as opposed to DIY? Had a ball park price back from nudura and it seems it could be quite a potential saving vs timber frame.

maybe ask them for an approved contractor and get price from them?