Pros and Cons of PH

[Alexphd1]

Are you diy or contracting out the build?

[scottishjohn]

51 minutes ago, Mako said:

what system would you recommend for basement construction?

As I have not built my house yet  or indeed any ICF house 

I can only tell you what system I intend to use which will be a woodcrete type system ISOTEX or DURISOL  

I add again it is only my view  and if there were no woodcrete type ICF systems ,then i would be happy using a poly icf system ,but not as confident that the walls would be as  true .

 

the main difference being  no need for serious bracing systems and you can glue ,screw anything to the woodcrete blocks  very simply  anywhere -not just in certain places like some poly block systems.

you must do your own investigations -

and if including the hire of a full bracing system  for your poly block system is as economic as   the woodcrete types --then  there should be little to choose , other then cladding should be easier to fix to woodcrete -my cladding will be granite slips mortared directly to the woodcrete -

[Conor]

13 hours ago, tonyshouse said:

There are alternatives to PH and current building regs awe woefully poor. I like MINERGIE — minimum energy and happily live without A heating system, use about 1/3 of PH energy use limit.

 

think before you build- energy will only get more expensive. 

 

And the new European NZEB - near zero carbon emission buildings.

[tonyshouse]

NZEB doesn’t seem to have energy use or heating demand numbers which I think it ought to and is why I like MINERGIE  and PH 

[Mako]

On 13/09/2020 at 00:51, scottishjohn said:

As I have not built my house yet  or indeed any ICF house 

I can only tell you what system I intend to use which will be a woodcrete type system ISOTEX or DURISOL  

I add again it is only my view  and if there were no woodcrete type ICF systems ,then i would be happy using a poly icf system ,but not as confident that the walls would be as  true .

 

the main difference being  no need for serious bracing systems and you can glue ,screw anything to the woodcrete blocks  very simply  anywhere -not just in certain places like some poly block systems.

you must do your own investigations -

and if including the hire of a full bracing system  for your poly block system is as economic as   the woodcrete types --then  there should be little to choose , other then cladding should be easier to fix to woodcrete -my cladding will be granite slips mortared directly to the woodcrete -

Thank you, I have had a look at both systems, compare to Poly block system, there is no solid concrete layer, would that be a weakness?

What stops water getting in?

The poly block system has got the solid concrete, but it’s hard to fix anything into it. How do you waterproof below ground?

would you recommend concrete shuttering for basement, and insulate from inside?

 

[scottishjohn]

2 hours ago, Mako said:

Thank you, I have had a look at both systems, compare to Poly block system, there is no solid concrete layer, would that be a weakness?

What stops water getting in?

even with poly block systems  you have to "tank " the outside -so just the same 

do some investigations 

[Mako]

On 12/09/2020 at 23:50, Alexphd1 said:

Are you diy or contracting out the build?

At the moment I’m thinking of contracting the superstructure, and finishing the build by local trade

[Mako]

On 14/09/2020 at 19:39, scottishjohn said:

even with poly block systems  you have to "tank " the outside -so just the same 

do some investigations 

I have done some I think, I believe you need to deliver two lines of defence, solid concrete is Considered as one,

land the tanking as the other.

if you were to use woodcrete how would you provide the second line of defence?

[Nickfromwales]

On 13/09/2020 at 09:05, tonyshouse said:

NZEB doesn’t seem to have energy use or heating demand numbers which I think it ought to and is why I like MINERGIE  and PH 

Seemed to be massively hung up on RER when I recently put one through ( NZEB targeted but we got it down to ZEB ).

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

RER 

 

What's RER?

 

(Apart from Fido with a Stutter).

 

(And the French acronym most difficult to pronounce in French - why did they make the Paris Regional Railway a linguistic chicane? Like giving a Russian R to a non-trombone playing Brit.)

 

(Sounds like the kind of thing BRE might invent so they have to spend hundreds of K of Govt grants explaining it.)

F

Edited September 19, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Nickfromwales]

17 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

What's RER?

Renewable Energy Ratio. What % of the consumed electricity will be offset by self ( eg mirco ) generation. We got 37% on that job which was apparently very good.

[Nickfromwales]

Its only based on one type of base load, IIRC, and was an odd set of hoops to jump through. A bit of a converse way to get somewhere AFAIC.

[MikeSharp01]

On 18/09/2020 at 22:45, Nickfromwales said:

Seemed to be massively hung up on RER when I recently put one through ( NZEB targeted but we got it down to ZEB ).

I guess it needs to be as that is its reason for being but it does have, differs by country of adoption, some limits elsewhere to stop a person with a a 10 Hectare solar & wind farm building a single skin glass house. Which EU country's regs was the house you worked on aligned to? The N(ZEB) idea has been around since 2010 but the UK has not adopted it - mainly opting out of anything that might upset colleagues in the big housebuilders. You can read the starting point here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32010L0031&from=EN (Page 17) from there you need pick a country if you want details and Ireland is the easy one as theirs is in English and they are taking it seriously. We (me and my other half) are going for PH with a SAP of over 100 which should meet a theoretical N(ZEB) depending on how you feel about how good SAP actually is as a proxey for engergy efficiencey. 

[Mako]

Guys, sorry been quiet for a while, been researching, came across interesting systems like Durisol, Isotex and Velox.

have you got any experience with those? Based on my research it has been suggested to follow a concrete structure,

rather than Timberframe or traditional build. Any suggestions?

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, Mako said:

Based on my research it has been suggested to follow a concrete structure,

All depends on what boxes you need ticked. 
I’ve not liked what I’ve seen of Durisol up to now, but quite impressed with both Velox and Isotex. 
When the time comes, it’ll be a warm cell blown TF for me without a second thought.
Good thing with Isotex is the UK company offers turnkey packages including foundations, so much easier to get a frame up ( for eg for novice self builders ). 

[ToughButterCup]

4 hours ago, Mako said:

Guys, sorry been quiet for a while, been researching, came across interesting systems like Durisol, .... have you got any experience with those?... 

 

Yes. Durisol. 

Here's a search listing of everything I have posted on Durisol . Not all good.  But the opposite is also true. 

A great deal of rubbish is posted about ICFs. Outlandish claims are common. Visceral criticism of one or other is also common.  The way through that fog of misinformation is to go  and look at - visit ‐ a few builds of each type.  There'll be good and bad installations in each type of ICF. One will click for you.

 

I'd use Durisol again - but only because I know - mostly - what to look for. 

[Mako]

On 30/09/2020 at 01:32, Nickfromwales said:

All depends on what boxes you need ticked. 
I’ve not liked what I’ve seen of Durisol up to now, but quite impressed with both Velox and Isotex. 
When the time comes, it’ll be a warm cell blown TF for me without a second thought.
Good thing with Isotex is the UK company offers turnkey packages including foundations, so much easier to get a frame up ( for eg for novice self builders ). 

The question is, why warm cell blown? What are the benefits?

durisol I have not heard good things either, but the concrete is still interesting me.

just read about the Thermal mass benefits. Based on my read many members are underestimating the benefits.

solar gains, storage, and heat release when required without any input. Why is that not a benefit? Surely it saves 

energy for heating/cooling.

More I’m reading more I’m gravitating towards concrete structures. Isotex is one of the options, it seem a better product

compared to Durisol.

[scottishjohn]

4 hours ago, Mako said:

More I’m reading more I’m gravitating towards concrete structures. Isotex is one of the options, it seem a better product

compared to Durisol.

having studied both very close and looked at samples -but not built with either

the main difference between the the 2 would be a finer finish and accurate width dimension on the istoex when compared to durisol

 durisol you can only be sure to have one side totally flat due to some differences in thickness of blocks , length and height dimensions seem to be accurate though --not a great problem really 

 and the other difference is the concrete core is 120mm on isotex and 150mm on durisol if I remember correctly - so a  25%saving on concrete costs -

check yourself in case things have changed

[SteamyTea]

4 hours ago, Mako said:

 

just read about the Thermal mass benefits. Based on my read many members are underestimating the benefits.

solar gains, storage, and heat release when required without any input. Why is that not a benefit? Surely it saves 

energy for heating/cooling.

Oh dear, where have your read this.

[joe90]

@Mako you are about to get a lecture ? (On the other hand I am a fan of a “heavy house” and built mine that way).

Edited October 1, 2020 by joe90

[Ferdinand]

Welcome, @Mako.

 

I'll sit this one out in my deckchair.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Ferdinand

[scottishjohn]

6 minutes ago, joe90 said:

@Mako you are about to get a lecture ? (On the other hand I am a fan of a “heavy house” and built mine that way).

me too 

 

[Nickfromwales]

Why would you want a concrete core to absorb heat from the house, and then have to try to stop it then conveying that to atmosphere by piling more insulation externally? Keep the heated element in the house and wrap it with insulation   Adding the concrete core is a downside IMO which creates a path for the heat to be exchanged.

You can mitigate with said extra insulation, but even though the U value is good on paper the decrement delay differs from blown cellulose, which is where my money would be. 
TF feels as solid as most traditional builds, plus you don’t need to large coat before installing the floors to get you airtight. Lots of gotchas with ICF. 

As for the opinion on Dirisol, I just speak as I find. Velox and Isotex both have bigger blocks and very excellent uniformity, so less junctions to deal with and less making good before internal finishes get applied.

TF still remains the easiest for getting very close to airtight. A couple have seen 0.25 and 0.26 ACH which is exceptionally good. 

[Dan F]

6 hours ago, Mako said:

More I’m reading more I’m gravitating towards concrete structures.

 

You do realise that there is a. bit of a contridiction in building a passive house out of concrete?   Concrete production accounts for 8% of global Co2 emmisions, whereas a timber structure from a sustainable source actually stores carbon.

 

So, your passive house might reduce your yearly carbon footprint, but to fully consider it's environmental impact you need to consider the build and it's materials too.

 

There is a lot of useful information on this here: https://www.leti.london/

[Mr Punter]

On 12/09/2020 at 18:01, tonyshouse said:

energy will only get more expensive

 

Why do you think this will be the case?