Pocster Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, joe90 said: I was replying to you, not zoot! Having my afternoon coffee and scanning various projects that are moving forward. I’m on series 7 of suits .... I didn’t stipulate whom you replied to just that you would reply . Slam dunk a multi million pound lawsuit your way . Shit the bed big style now haven’t you ! Harvey Specter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, pocster said: I’m on series 7 of suits Brilliant series, I just watched the whole series of spooks (instead of watching the news at 10 as it’s so depressing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, joe90 said: Having my afternoon coffee and scanning various projects that are moving forward. Won't be any of mine then! @zoothorn, this balancing lark is a real thing. People aren't just saying for a laugh. Picked at random but try this: https://www.bestheating.com/info/a-best-heating-guide-how-to-balance-radiators/#:~:text=When you balance radiators%2C you,then your radiators need balancing. As for a temperature measuring device you can pick up a multimeter with temperature probe like in the guide above for about a tenner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, joe90 said: Brilliant series, I just watched the whole series of spooks (instead of watching the news at 10 as it’s so depressing) Every episode is a bit samey tbh . But it’s keeping me amused for a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 3 hours ago, zoothorn said: I cannot agree that the room's rad above over 2x its size, is undersized as is suggested. Is it a single, double or triple panel and is it a convector radiator ie does it have fins? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Onoff said: Won't be any of mine then! Yes, slow, but you don’t argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Onoff said: Won't be any of mine then! @zoothorn, this balancing lark is a real thing. People aren't just saying for a laugh. Picked at random but try this: https://www.bestheating.com/info/a-best-heating-guide-how-to-balance-radiators/#:~:text=When you balance radiators%2C you,then your radiators need balancing. As for a temperature measuring device you can pick up a multimeter with temperature probe like in the guide above for about a tenner. Oops ! I see I left my red shoes there !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Just now, pocster said: Oops ! I see I left my red shoes there !! New project for @Onoff - box that pipe in . Box everything in . Then it avoids all the other jobs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, PeterW said: @zoothorn I said yesterday you didn’t understand rad balancing, and you ignored it. I also went through and explained how we size radiators using BS EN442 and how flow temperature affects heat output, yet apparently because one room gets warm (your workshop) I was wrong. I’ve offered to professionally come and review the house, install and design to see how it is all working and identify any issues, you’ve declined and then gone on to say that you disagree with me even though I have more experience of this. It feels remarkably like you do not want any help with this, but are happier to have something to complain about, rather than take the assistance from many members of this forum to resolve it. I wish you luck resolving this, I have no further comment or input to make on this. I'm only trying to understand it PeterW. I do want help, but if I cannot make any sense at all of you stating my rads are unblanced, am I just meant to lie & say "ok I understand" ? (or be truthful & say with respect I do not understand until the reason given). There -has- to be a plausible reason how you & joe can say my rads aren't balanced, when they all feel temp the same + same time they come on. All I'm currently asking is if you can explain, even if repeating (I missed the reply with BS4592 in.. replies are missed/ Ive said this before, unless you refresh the page continually all day). Can you just answer this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, pocster said: Every episode is a bit samey tbh . But it’s keeping me amused for a bit Try Babylon Berlin. Plenty of walk-on-glazing to be seen there. And one or two actors who will prolly get your heart rate up ; a bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: Try Babylon Berlin. Plenty of walk-on-glazing to be seen there. And one or two actors who will prolly get your heart rate up ; a bit. Oh man ! I can’t do subtitles! I want to watch and use 1% cognitive function not read and max out !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, zoothorn said: ... Can you just answer this? Zoot, this thread is the perfect case study of how difficult it is to explain (teach) and learn online. Most of the contributors here have forgotten more than you or I will ever know about radiators and balancing. And I venture to suggest they've never been taught anything about how to teach ab initio members of the public in an online resource. So everyone's groping around trying to help: and you are groping around trying to learn. Both your job, and theirs is incredibly difficult. It might be an idea to spend a little time ( maybe a post ? ) summarising what you think you have learned about radiators and balancing. Write it in simple bullet points as a list. Then those who still want to help might be able to see more clearly what help you need. Edited January 14, 2021 by ToughButterCup 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 15 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: Is it a single, double or triple panel and is it a convector radiator ie does it have fins? Hi Peter, they are both simple standard CH double rads, water filled by the cylinder. Fins between the two layers. I think called fins. Look morelike gills. All house ones the same, bathroom different/ towel rail type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, zoothorn said: they are both simple standard CH double rads So increasing the heat output by making it a triple panel would increase the heat going into the room by 50%. Many years ago my parents lived in a very old solid walled house and it was very warm because they had radiators that were large enough to keep it warm, around 22C, with an LPG boiler. Your ASHP will deliver much cooler water to your radiators so your radiators should be proportionately larger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, ToughButterCup said: Zoot, this thread is the perfect case study of how difficult it is to explain both teach and learn online. Most of the contributors here have forgotten more than you or I will ever know about radiators and balancing. And I venture to suggest they've never been taught anything about how to teach ab initio members of the public in an online resource. So everyone's groping around trying to help: and you are groping around trying to learn. Both your job, and theirs is incredibly difficult. It might be an idea to spend a little time ( maybe a post ? ) summarising what you think you have learned about radiators and balancing. Write it in simple bullet points as a list. Then those who still want to help might be able to see more clearly what help you need. That's a very fair post. Can I also just add, that when Peter says "I explained to you about balancing" it was a post over 10 days ago, that I might well have read in fact (not missed at all) but I cannot ping back & remember what was said, if this was the 1st time I ever heard the info. Saying now "I told you 10 days ago" isn't fair. What is fair is to just ask, can you remind me of.. but I'm met with a slew of almost agressive comments 'you dont read'.. 'we said'.. 'yoiu refuse to listen'.. etc. Its totally unwarranted. I do read, listen. It should be clear by now that my idea of balancing, is simply all rads should be equal temp, basically this. I still do not know if this is true or not. Until I know this (people are more inclined to ridicule than help by answering this simplest of Q's, watching me flounder knowing I haven't grasped something right in front of me perhaps) I cannot understand, or agree, with the stated "your rads are not balanced" as it seems completely counterintuitive. Is it so bad to ask just to go back to sq1, and ask this? it is either a yes or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Maybe ? https://www.homeserve.com/uk/living/how-to/balance-radiators/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 59 minutes ago, pocster said: Oops ! I see I left my red shoes there !! Are you friends with Dorothy? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 15 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: So increasing the heat output by making it a triple panel would increase the heat going into the room by 50%. Many years ago my parents lived in a very old solid walled house and it was very warm because they had radiators that were large enough to keep it warm, around 22C, with an LPG boiler. Your ASHP will deliver much cooler water to your radiators so your radiators should be proportionately larger. Understood. But shouldn't I expect though that the double rad (1800 x 70) in a room 3800x 3600 x 2300mm H, with a flow temp of 55*, and on for 8 hours (desired temp 19*) should be more than adequate if the room below (2000mm H) has a double rad in only 2/5ths of the size, & heats the room very well? Both rads are equal temp. It remains very strange that it doesn't seem to be adequate. And if it can get the room to 19.5*, once/ therefore it is capable, does that not proove that it is in fact adequate? Generally the rads are alot larger. But Ive compensated with the cooler water the ashp usually puts into rads, by increacing the flow temp to 55*. I think 55* is more normal for a electric or gas boiler, more standard CH system isn't it? (if so the very large rad should unquestionably be above adequate in the top room: even stranger then). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 Please someone tell me yes or no. Does balancing radiators mean getting all to the same temp, or not. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 hour ago, pocster said: Oh man ! I can’t do subtitles! I want to watch and use 1% cognitive function not read and max out !! Check the original French Banlieue 13 .You might change your mind. Blue Is The Warmest Color too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Here's a YouTube search list with the terms balancing and radiators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 hour ago, joe90 said: Brilliant series, I just watched the whole series of spooks (instead of watching the news at 10 as it’s so depressing) The Queen's Gambit is very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Just now, Onoff said: Check the original French Banlieue 13 Mais cherie, je suis trop jeune pour ca, non? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 19 minutes ago, zoothorn said: Please someone tell me yes or no. Does balancing radiators mean getting all to the same temp, or not. Thanks. No, balancing refers to the flow going through them. Water like anything under pressure likes to take the easy route and thats usually the shortest. When you balance a system you restrict the flow through the easiest rads forcing some water to go the hard route and through the highest or furthest rads. Rad temp varies with material, colour, thickness and how much air circulates around it so very rarely do rads measure at the same temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 28 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: Mais cherie, je suis trop jeune pour ca, non? Read that first as jaune... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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