Extension- Last Stuff.

[zoothorn]

22 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

But one very easy to test with a damp meter.

 

As I said, I don't have damp. This was one point I just made. I have a little in my main room, yes, only at floor level but well away from this problem new room was my point. Damp within the fabric of a 1 year built (so dried sufficiently) new timber frame build? no way.

 

The problem room is up on 1st floor well away from the main room. The room below (next door to the main room) actually does have a tiny bit of damp in (shares a main old wall, shares the ground-floor-level) but nothing much of note, & crucially no sign of condensation down here. It only occurs at the french doors above.

 

I do also get similar condensation (I only just saw last night/ forgot to mention sorry) next to one other door: back door. No damp here, other end of house & well away from the old main room shell, a modern 80's extention. Reveal twds btm of door.. bad condensation. BUT & this is the thing: it's a very similar door to outside, as this, in the new room below my new problem top room. Almost identical.

 

So the Q is why the condensation, specifically just at this french doors location, ruling out structural damp in it's new timber frame build.

 

The common thing between these two doors-with-condensation (seems to me) possibly twofold: the floor is cold, & structure of door is poor. My new top room floor shouldn't be cold.. but I think possibly is: a pocket between chipboard & rockwool below it I think is filling with cold air (just a hunch, but as I built it I know there's a 4" void, & floor just feels too cold to me!). Just my opinion tho.

 

If the floor of the new room directly below (no condensation) is warm, 50mm PIR directly below chipboard, & the structure is equally poor as my back door, & it has no condensation.. then logic points to the structure around the doors ingressing cold, or not (not my opinion: just a process of elimination).

 

Therefore logic does just shout 'door is sh*te!'. But door structure I think is maybe only part the cause. Topograhy, IE atmospherics (not by damp within the structure as there isn't any in the newly built french doors area or whole room... atmospherics caused by the local atmosphere) being the other part. I am absolutely sure as sure its a combination of these two factors. But 5/95.. 50/50.. or 95/5.. who knows. BUT, if one of my 3x shite doors has not a jot of condensation... & the only thing differenciating it from other two is a warm floor... then doesn't logic go on to shout 'floor is sh*te!' plus 'door is sh*te!' ?? (so 95/5.. IE 5% only local atmosphere, & therefore, the condensation cause mostly due to shortcomings in the way -I- have built the area around the french doors). That seems logical to me, IE me being the culprit by inept building work(!!).. but I do just 'feel' it's more of a 50/50 thing tho.

[dpmiller]

I "feel" you still gotta read up on dewpoints and condensing surfaces.

[SteamyTea]

So you are not willing to test things to get data.

Fair enough, you know best via your logic.

As I said to another on here, there is more than one system of logic and I do not know your preferred type.

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

 

As I said, I don't have damp. This was one point I just made. I have a little in my main room, yes, only at floor level but well away from this problem new room was my point. Damp within the fabric of a 1 year built (so dried sufficiently) new timber frame build? no way.

 

The problem room is up on 1st floor well away from the main room. The room below (next door to the main room) actually does have a tiny bit of damp in (shares a main old wall, shares the ground-floor-level) but nothing much of note, & crucially no sign of condensation down here. It only occurs at the french doors above.

 

I do also get similar condensation (I only just saw last night/ forgot to mention sorry) next to one other door: back door. No damp here, other end of house & well away from the old main room shell, a modern 80's extention. Reveal twds btm of door.. bad condensation. BUT & this is the thing: it's a very similar door to outside, as this, in the new room below my new problem top room. Almost identical.

 

So the Q is why the condensation, specifically just at this french doors location, ruling out structural damp in it's new timber frame build.

 

The common thing between these two doors-with-condensation (seems to me) possibly twofold: the floor is cold, & structure of door is poor. My new top room floor shouldn't be cold.. but I think possibly is: a pocket between chipboard & rockwool below it I think is filling with cold air (just a hunch, but as I built it I know there's a 4" void, & floor just feels too cold to me!). Just my opinion tho.

 

If the floor of the new room directly below (no condensation) is warm, 50mm PIR directly below chipboard, & the structure is equally poor as my back door, & it has no condensation.. then logic points to the structure around the doors ingressing cold, or not (not my opinion: just a process of elimination).

 

Therefore logic does just shout 'door is sh*te!'. But door structure I think is maybe only part the cause. Topograhy, IE atmospherics (not by damp within the structure as there isn't any in the newly built french doors area or whole room... atmospherics caused by the local atmosphere) being the other part. I am absolutely sure as sure its a combination of these two factors. But 5/95.. 50/50.. or 95/5.. who knows. BUT, if one of my 3x shite doors has not a jot of condensation... & the only thing differenciating it from other two is a warm floor... then doesn't logic go on to shout 'floor is sh*te!' plus 'door is sh*te!' ?? (so 95/5.. IE 5% only local atmosphere, & therefore, the condensation cause mostly due to shortcomings in the way -I- have built the area around the french doors). That seems logical to me, IE me being the culprit by inept building work(!!).. but I do just 'feel' it's more of a 50/50 thing tho.

My tenants claim ‘damp’ especially during working from home . As said it’s condensation. Solution for my tenants is open the window and ventilate the room - obviously they aren’t keen on this when it’s cold .

You either ventilate ( and get cold for a period ) or install some dehumidifiers per room . You have very little choice . You breath ( I assume ) you therefore emit moisture - it has to go somewhere.

You will always have this issue unless you do something , it won’t go away .

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

So you are not willing to test things to get data.

Fair enough, you know best via your logic.

As I said to another on here, there is more than one system of logic and I do not know your preferred type.

 

No I didn't say this, I was also going to say though, coincidentally this 'beast from east' which hasn't brought snow out here, but has though brought -completely- different atmosphere conditions to normal (like in past 4.5 yrs, two patches only like this) means the very time I need to take an 'average' rh reading.. I will get anything but. So Im willing to do so, once a normal patch resumes, even tho as I said I think it might only be partially useful/ not telling the whole story at all.

 

Seems to me it also has to be huff the coinciding reasons why my 2 doors have condensation. IE where I sleep being most huff, coinciding with most condensation, & the back door being very close to my kitchen huff, without a partition between (& I see weird cooking gloop forming on the lintel.. bizarrely.. giving more evidence saying general huff gets to door area). I think that is a definite.

 

But thinking onwards, the nature of the condensation -must- be related to the nature of the air I'm huffing. So, onwards still.. I wonder if this super-dry air weather patch (my goodness WHAT a relief! WAY more to me here than to you: in fact this dry air you just might notice it's a 'bit drier' feeling: to me tho it's "woohoo!! xyz is dry! paper is almost dry! my clothes can dry almost normally! my pits arent clammy! my gentlemans area!." you get the idea) this dry weather patch... might... result in far less condensation. And if so... my atmosphere thing/ reason has validity. But I bet you'll find a hole to pick in this idea too!

 

I'll put it to the test tho.. but i think only today I was mulling 'hang on why far less condensation' to myself without it dawning on me reason could be the dry air (due to being bleary eyed, having been woken constantly by my CH coming on overnight.. still the same/ & the fkn leak.. still the same too). Will test over next few days.

 

 

[ProDave]

It sounds like you need to move house to the east coast somewhere?

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

It sounds like you need to move house to the east coast somewhere?

 

haha. Well as I just know in my bones that it's here, 8m in westwards from the sea, up over hills (IE precipitation factors), then 600ft up within a 'bowl' of fir forests closely looming over, often literally in a cloud too, just has inherrant partial (if not most of the) cause to this problem.. it's certainly an idea!

 

In meantime: I wonder if I could inject the french door frames with say soudal foam as insulation? The doors with the DG units in are seperate of course, so I wouldn't bodge up the glass units. Drill hole > fill up the outer frame ??

 

IE if I could try summat/ rule that out/ continue.. I might get to the cause >> then >> the easy bit might be doing summat about it, or might be impossible if big structural alterations of course, but at least I'd know the bloody reason!

 

thx zoot

[dpmiller]

PUT A HEATER IN THE ROOM FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SteamyTea]

14 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

PUT A HEATER IN THE ROOM FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would use electricity, and then we would have to explain, to the quantum level, how it works.

Then we would have to explain the two quantum theories.

And the room would still be cold and damp.

Set fire to the place and claim on insurance, at least it will be warm enough to drive the damp away.

[Pocster]

18 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

PUT A HEATER IN THE ROOM FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess what?. I only suggested this a zillion pages back.

I've offered the magic Zoot 11K to close this thread. I assume that would cover the costs of said heaters.

 

Wait until Summer.....

 

"My f'ing house too hot" FFS - FFS FFS FFS FFS FFS

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

Set fire to the place and claim on insurance, at least it will be warm enough to drive the damp away.

You really want to explain how to create fire?

[Pocster]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

 

haha. Well as I just know in my bones that it's here, 8m in westwards from the sea, up over hills (IE precipitation factors), then 600ft up within a 'bowl' of fir forests closely looming over, often literally in a cloud too, just has inherrant partial (if not most of the) cause to this problem.. it's certainly an idea!

 

In meantime: I wonder if I could inject the french door frames with say soudal foam as insulation? The doors with the DG units in are seperate of course, so I wouldn't bodge up the glass units. Drill hole > fill up the outer frame ??

 

IE if I could try summat/ rule that out/ continue.. I might get to the cause >> then >> the easy bit might be doing summat about it, or might be impossible if big structural alterations of course, but at least I'd know the bloody reason!

 

thx zoot

Remove all doors and windows. Then brick them up.

[TonyT]

Do you want to explain mixing mortar?

[Pocster]

29 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Do you want to explain mixing mortar?

No . 
brick the openings up with Lego ?

[Pocster]

15 minutes ago, pocster said:

No . 
brick the openings up with Lego ?

Or just build this and move in

 

https://www.zavvi.com/toys-lego/lego-disney-the-disney-castle-71040/12541535.html?affil=thggpsad&switchcurrency=GBP&shippingcountry=GB&shoppingpid=717035&&thg_ppc_campaign=71700000069836871&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgomBBhDXARIsAFNyUqN615CCz757NWbX8ozwBQ3dLGDY6OLw-AJUGfk-z8Ibm8G9iXlEmG8aAms4EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Pocster]

Just now, pocster said:

Or just build this and move in

 

https://www.zavvi.com/toys-lego/lego-disney-the-disney-castle-71040/12541535.html?affil=thggpsad&switchcurrency=GBP&shippingcountry=GB&shoppingpid=717035&&thg_ppc_campaign=71700000069836871&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgomBBhDXARIsAFNyUqN615CCz757NWbX8ozwBQ3dLGDY6OLw-AJUGfk-z8Ibm8G9iXlEmG8aAms4EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

• Castle main building first floor features the main hall with large arched doorway, mosaic floor tiling, ornate chandelier, suits of armor, shield-decorated walls, grandfather clock, floor-standing vase with buildable flower elements, magic carpet and a golden lamp. Also a fantastic ASHP

[Gav_P]

3 minutes ago, pocster said:

Or just build this and move in

 

https://www.zavvi.com/toys-lego/lego-disney-the-disney-castle-71040/12541535.html?affil=thggpsad&switchcurrency=GBP&shippingcountry=GB&shoppingpid=717035&&thg_ppc_campaign=71700000069836871&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgomBBhDXARIsAFNyUqN615CCz757NWbX8ozwBQ3dLGDY6OLw-AJUGfk-z8Ibm8G9iXlEmG8aAms4EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

£300 for a frigging set of Lego!! 

[Pocster]

Just now, Gav_P said:

£300 for a frigging set of Lego!! 

No !

 

For a habitable house with an ASHP and no damp . 

[zoothorn]

4 hours ago, dpmiller said:

PUT A HEATER IN THE ROOM FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Dpm,

 

 

HAD A HEATER IN FOR AGES THANKS!!!!!! BIG FKOFF LONG ONE TOO!!!!!!!!!

 

And getting a reasonably consistant 18.5* in here from midday >> 9pm in here too. every day it's on.

 

[zoothorn]

4 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

That would use electricity, and then we would have to explain, to the quantum level, how it works.

Then we would have to explain the two quantum theories.

And the room would still be cold and damp.

Set fire to the place and claim on insurance, at least it will be warm enough to drive the damp away.

 

ST you just add sarcasm & keep saying its damp. This is ridiculous & not helpful.

 

All your info is under the assumption its damp. There is not a jot of fkn damp in the room!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FFS man!!!!!!!!!!!

 

No. damp. In. This. Room. Full. stop.

 

All you do is read that if I say I have a bit of damp in the main old shell, well well away from this new room (extention sort of gives it away that its new)... you jump to the assumption the cause of this.. is damp. So very wrong. I dont fkn pay my builder £26k to have built me a timber frame extention with damp in do I. FFS.

 

How on earth is this helpful?!

[SteamyTea]

Humid air is 'damp'

Condensation on a door frame is 'damp'

High external humidity is 'damp'

 

So do you want help of not?

[Thedreamer]

Do you draw curtains in front of the french doors in the evening?

[Onoff]

You've a collection of interconnected "boxes", your rooms. Some ARE damper than others, like the old ones at the bottom where you say you have rising damp. All the boxes, to different degrees are "air leaky" (yes, even the new rooms). Those leaky points work both ways. They'll let draughts in, they'll let heated air out. 

 

So the wind blows against the outside of the house. It forces it's way in those little leaky points in the building fabric, around doors, windows, mortar joints, ceiling roses, keyholes even. That incoming draught(s) will force all that warm 'ish, moisture laden air around your house. It'll try and get out but hang on, you've a decent, new, pretty well sealed up room upstairs. That warm, moist air can't get out. It'll get absorbed by some surfaces like paper and clothes. On hard surfaces you may well see it. On hard, comparatively cold surfaces, like your frames you WILL see it. I think you said you don't get the issue in the new downstairs workshop? A combination maybe of the materials in there soaking up any moisture, the fact that the room is on the ground floor and not really subject to rising, warm, moist air. 

[zoothorn]

So far Peter Stark seems to the only one whose given me a reasonable suggestion of a cause: of this excessive condensation, in this particular brand new built timber frame room, in the new extention (visible now Ive completed 'extention- last bits', having spent the winter in here watching my new pB bizarrely rotting away).

 

I ask for possible causes... but I get 'put a heater in'. I say no with thanks Im not asking about a solution, but what might be causing it. Again: 'put a heater in' (no I repeat, the cause pls/ not solutions). Its damp! (no, I have no damp in here. jesusH). Its damp put a heater in! For. crying. out. fkn. loud. Cause ideas/ suggestions etc? I aint got anywhere near solving it if I dont know the cause of it, the level of it, in here.

 

Recall me moaning (before carpet) about it covering the -outside- of these doors ?? (so much I couldn't see out- never seen doors or a window so bad). Right.. so then, is it that weird to be questioning them again as maybe a part of (even all of-?) the cause of this excessive condensation also on the -inside- too?

 

I mean Ive never seen such a huge red arrow pointing at anything in my life, as these doors tbh but I'm happy to be prooved wrong if there's good reason to say this big red arrow's a big red herring instead. But no-one says so, ignored, & instead 'you got damp.. put a heater in!'. boy oh boy.

 

If I had a penny for everytime someone said 'put a heater in'.....

 

.... I'd have five pounds sixty three.

 

zH

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

36 minutes ago, Thedreamer said:

Do you draw curtains in front of the french doors in the evening?

 

Hi Thedreamer.

 

Yes I do.. & tbh that's interesting Ive not considered this (actually curtains aren't the least bit interesting, but I think I get your gist!). In fact, as it's yet to have big balcony which will add some privacy (IE 1.2m H of wood railing) I've deliberately kept curtains closed up until midday.

 

Hadn't mulled on this (but: before curtains put up, I was getting excessive condensation on the outside tho/ huge ammounts too).

 

Designwise the extention end, doors etc, is too close to the two lanes really.. but the views & the light such a knockout on both counts, I went with it (my design). It means my bedroom can be seen into tho you see.

 

Damn good point- thanks for that. zH