Best devices for setting out?

[Tony K]

The time has come to do the setting out! 

I have an L-shaped bungalow, very tight to the site boundaries in all directions and split level at the corner of the L.

 

These laser measures offer a 'pythagoras' function, leading me to wonder if this is all I need for setting out...

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Distance-Portable-Digital-Measure-Backlit/dp/B01IEYDN3E/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2OSYZXWSFV0CH&dchild=1&keywords=laser+measure&qid=1590420833&sprefix=laser+m%2Caps%2C135&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyVlVHUjNRSkZaWEpOJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjA3MjIwVEEzQks4TVIySzdMJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyNTUxMzcySENIVE5SUUVWTkQmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

 

I am not sure however if it will be able to tell me if the measurements are horizontally level, which of course will be crucial in determining whether my linear measurements are the correct ones. 

 

Anyone used this type of thing for setting out? Or got a better suggestion?

 

Thanks

[JFDIY]

Steel tape measure (class 1) and a decent 'site' quality laser level with receiver. 

[Conor]

I'm hiring a Trimble S10 GPS unit for a week. Should get all points to a couple mm. Then again, I have a background in surveying! But Korec will load on my architect's setting out drawing, so all I need to do is turn it on and start locating my points and levels, peg and spray. I'll confirm with laser measure as well, but GPS will be more accurate than a laser measure over the distances involved. Another reason I'm hiring a unit is we've a lot of ground works to do for the basement... Have to get levels right over a large area.

 

Whatever method you use, you'll have to start setting out the building using at least two points that are located exactly as per your planning application. Best way is like above, but at a pinch you can triangulate off existing hard points, e.g. corner of neighbouring buildings. This won't help you with elevation... Which is very important as you don't want a building that ends up being taller than your PP allows! You'll need a site level and a point of known elevation.

 

Did you get a site survey done as part of your design and planning process?

 

Might be worth paying a surveyor to come out and do setting out for you... Half a day's work shouldn't be too expensive for a self employed surveyor.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Conor

[Tony K]

17 minutes ago, Conor said:

Did you get a site survey done as part of your design and planning process?

 

Might be worth paying a surveyor to come out and do setting out for you... Half a day's work shouldn't be too expensive for a self employed surveyor.

 

I did get a site survey, largely to establish the actual shape of the site as much as the size. Using that survey I plotted the footprint of the building onto the site, which you might be able to see from this very blurry image...

I am comfortable with height measurements, and have a couple of set points of reference to use as a datum for height, its setting out the footprint I need to focus on.

 

I have to excavate the land down 600mm approx anyway prior to piling, so I presume I would excavate, then get the surveyor to set it out?

 

If I use a surveyor to set out, what will I be left with on site? Is it likely to be string lines etc?

 

 

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Tony K said:

.... Or got a better suggestion?

 

Yellow Pages. A professional to do it for you. 

[Tony K]

31 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

Yellow Pages. A professional to do it for you. 

What would a professional leave me with? Do they tend to place steaks in the ground, use string lines, spray paint?
 

I'm just thinking about the correct stage to get the surveyor in. 

[scottishjohn]

34 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

Yellow Pages. A professional to do it for you. 

I think its one of these things 

If you have to ask --then maybe you should not be doing something so critical  to the whole job

[Russdl]

@Tony K we were left with profile boards with nails in them. String between the nails on two boards defined a wall. Most of the profile boards were set a long way back from the edge of the build, two were tucked under a bush outside of our plot, so they were not affected by or in the way of any of the build process. Line could be strung between the nails at any stage and the position of the slab or house checked. 

[Tony K]

6 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

I think its one of these things 

If you have to ask --then maybe you should not be doing something so critical  to the whole job

 

I'm sure you're right, and I've got no problem getting someone in. It's the order of events in my particular build that makes me think about doing bits of it myself. 

 

I need to excavate my site to three different levels before I do anything else (lower slab, higher slab and garden are all different). I'm happy enough using a dumpy level to get the levels right, but in order to delineate between the three areas I will need to do some sort of initial setting out just to mark out the three portions. 

 

Once I've reduced the site levels I will get a surveyor in to set out formally, then the piling firm can come in. 

 

The laser measure might help me do my initial marking out?

[Russell griffiths]

We have a piled foundation and I used a surveyor to set out

it cost £350-400ish 

i would not recommend trying to do it, the accuracy they achieved was spot on. 

 

First visit 20 wooden pegs in the ground, very rough accuracy 250mm big in every direction so I could lower the level 1000mm

 

second visit pile layout, 29 metal pins knocked in, accuracy to the mm in every direction. 

 

Then the piles went in and I built the ringbeam 

 

third visit wall set out to the mm

 

i chose the company most local to my site to save travel costs. 

[Tony K]

14 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

We have a piled foundation and I used a surveyor to set out

it cost £350-400ish 

i would not recommend trying to do it, the accuracy they achieved was spot on. 

 

First visit 20 wooden pegs in the ground, very rough accuracy 250mm big in every direction so I could lower the level 1000mm

 

second visit pile layout, 29 metal pins knocked in, accuracy to the mm in every direction. 

 

Then the piles went in and I built the ringbeam 

 

third visit wall set out to the mm

 

i chose the company most local to my site to save travel costs. 

 

Brilliant. All my questions are now answered.  

 

Thanks all.

[ToughButterCup]

As so often , (it is painful to admit ) @Russell griffiths closely followed by @scottishjohn are right.

If you have to ask about mission critical stuff, employ someone with Professional Indemnity Insurance. Do proper due diligence, talk to several of the professional's previous customers.

On our laying out phase, I did all of that and still found an error of exactly one meter in two places.

Cross  doesn't begin to describe how I felt. 

[Alexphd1]

Against the general opinon on here, I got the architect to supply me a drawing with a lot of required dimensions writing on it. We used a tape measure and set of the corners (insulated raft). Not rocket science! 

 

[tonyshouse]

A piece of orange string, set out front of building first then the critical side square to it then c/l of trenches then the rest of it 

 

I mostly used ancient Egyptians 345 and double checked by measuring the diagonals os any rectangle ?

[nod]

4 hours ago, Tony K said:

The time has come to do the setting out! 

I have an L-shaped bungalow, very tight to the site boundaries in all directions and split level at the corner of the L.

 

These laser measures offer a 'pythagoras' function, leading me to wonder if this is all I need for setting out...

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Distance-Portable-Digital-Measure-Backlit/dp/B01IEYDN3E/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2OSYZXWSFV0CH&dchild=1&keywords=laser+measure&qid=1590420833&sprefix=laser+m%2Caps%2C135&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyVlVHUjNRSkZaWEpOJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjA3MjIwVEEzQks4TVIySzdMJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyNTUxMzcySENIVE5SUUVWTkQmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

 

I am not sure however if it will be able to tell me if the measurements are horizontally level, which of course will be crucial in determining whether my linear measurements are the correct ones. 

 

Anyone used this type of thing for setting out? Or got a better suggestion?

 

Thanks

Hire an EDM 

Millimetre accurate 

 

[Miek]

4 hours ago, JFDIY said:

Steel tape measure (class 1) and a decent 'site' quality laser level with receiver. 

Exactly how I did it. 

 

And use string lines with nails on batter boards. 

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

For those who can set out and so don't have to ask on BH, that's fine.  I rather assumed that asking for advice implied a lack of confidence.  And setting out is one of those bits of a build where getting it wrong is potentially disastrous. 

 

I'm not sure how to put guttering up. When (not if) I get it wrong, I take it down &  do it again.....

[Declan52]

If you do go down the route of marking it out yourself get someone else to check and re check every point. I marked mine all out using a few pegs and a steel tape but it wasn't my first so knew what I was doing. 

A few minutes with another pair of eyes could save you a lot of pain. 

[Tony K]

I have followed the good advice on here and enlisted professional help for the key bits.

 

Before I get the piles in and the slab formed etc I will need to do some levelling out of the site. I'll be doing this with a mini digger so it won't be too precise.

 

To get my levels right I plan to use a rotory laser level. I have a fixed datum etc, but am interested in whether anyone here has advice on whether to rent or buy a level..

 

Expensive things to rent. £100 p/w once vat is added:

 

https://www.surreyhire.co.uk/hire/surveying/laser-levels/rotary-laser-level/2722/

 

Expensive to buy a good one:

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/stabila-stb-lapr150-self-levelling-rotary-laser-level/4057k

 

Not very expensive to buy a cheap one:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RIDGID-38758-Self-Levelling-Cross-Line-Horizontal/dp/B0098L00JS/ref=sr_1_33?crid=3IZ9VDMLDHG8P&dchild=1&keywords=rotary+laser+level&qid=1591808768&sprefix=rotory+laser%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-33

 

 

Do those of you to have tried before think I would be OK with a cheap one for my purposes? Would it work OK outdoors. I could use a long spirit level as a staff.

 

Thanks

 

[tonyshouse]

Cheap one and do it at night, 39 quid kitchen cube type laser one will do it 

Edited June 10, 2020 by tonyshouse
Missed word

[Russdl]

Cheapish one and do it by day with a cheapish laser receiver on a bit of batten that is suitably marked for the different levels you need for your site. worked a treat for me doing the fall on my drains, and I didn't have to wait for nightfall to get started.  

[Tony K]

1 hour ago, Russdl said:

Cheapish one and do it by day with a cheapish laser receiver on a bit of batten that is suitably marked for the different levels you need for your site. worked a treat for me doing the fall on my drains, and I didn't have to wait for nightfall to get started.  

 

Thanks

Do you have the links to the products at all? These are just images.

[Tony K]

2 hours ago, tonyshouse said:

Cheap one and do it at night, 39 quid kitchen cube type laser one will do it 

 

Would I not be able to use a cheap one in the daytime? I'm thinking I won't need to see the laser line all over the site, just against my staff.

[ultramods]

19 minutes ago, Tony K said:

 

Would I not be able to use a cheap one in the daytime? I'm thinking I won't need to see the laser line all over the site, just against my staff.

Possibly not, I tried it last week during the day and couldn't see it against my staff

[Russdl]

@Tony K. I used one of these lasers with one of these detectors.

 

I was using the combo in bright sunlight over a distance of 22m or so. The laser line was invisible to the naked eye but the detector picked it up without problems, bleeping away to indicate high (fast beeps) or low (slow beeps) , and a steady tone when you're spot on.