builder gone, help please with tmber frame!

[redtop]

So timber frame, 1st floor walls and OSB sheafing done and builder gone!  Don't ask, its cost us a fortune which means doing rest myself. Kitchen area and half of lounge is 1 floor with flat roof. 2nd floor site over half lounge with large overhang, again flat roof.

 

Lots of steels as you can imagine which are all fitted. I desperately need to get on with build, could someone point me at some images, threads where I can see how you fix joists to top of ground floor walls, or ANY images of a stick build that show how the next stage fits together.

 

Sorry for the rather wide ranging nature of the question but this has been completely unexpected and I must get on with getting at least some of it watertight.  Note we are using solid timber joists and these have already been delivered,

 

thanks everyone

[ProDave]

Has he gone because of CV-19 or gone because you have fallen out?

 

Do you have all the jousts and the rest of the timber frame kit?

 

Do you have the drawings from the architect / TF company showing how it aall goes together?

 

Pictures of where you are now?

[redtop]

2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Has he gone because of CV-19 or gone because you have fallen out?

 

Do you have all the jousts and the rest of the timber frame kit?

 

Do you have the drawings from the architect / TF company showing how it aall goes together?

 

Pictures of where you are now?

CV-19 was the excuse, further digging and well.  I cant say at this stage....  Yes we have 100 joists for next stage, pro-passive for sheafing and 50 pack of OSB for flat roof. so most of it.  designs and pics attached

[redtop]

[redtop]

[redtop]

[dpmiller]

why is the membrane on the INSIDE of the panels?

[jamieled]

@dpmiller isn't that propassiv osb rather than a membrane?

[ProDave]

What is going on the outside?

 

I don't see enough detail in those drawings.  There should be some drawings that show more detail like joist plans and details of important junctions.

 

If you don't have them ask the designer / TF company for them.

[redtop]

its propasive OSB and floor ply has just been treated to keep it weatherproof while build stalled.

 

joists are at 400mm centres, drawings below show details at junctions plus SEs drawings.  Not a chance of getting more detailed drawings. note all this is being stick built on site due to horrible access and I have hand balled 100 joists and 50 OSB sheets for next phase

 

[redtop]

[redtop]

[redtop]

and the outside will have wood fibber boards as per NBT building system (and insulation between studs) https://www.natural-building.co.uk/system/timber-frame-clad/

[ProDave]

I would be phoning around looking for a local joiner to come on board with you. He should have more experience of this sort of stuff and all the tools needed.

[ProDave]

2 minutes ago, redtop said:

and the outside will have wood fibber boards as per NBT building system (and insulation between studs) https://www.natural-building.co.uk/system/timber-frame-clad/

That is the same system I used even the same render system.  If you are planning on render then have a discussion with me first, I have some issues with the top coat delaminating in a few places which is still an ongoing issue but investigation has halted at the moment due to CV-19.

[redtop]

no, ceder cladding.  I have all the tools and no money so no chance of getting a joiner in, just got to get on with it! if someone can point me to a blog / website with some good photos, that would be great.  I have the trada books as a guide as well.  

[Russell griffiths]

If you have no experience with this sort of thing try and find a local carpenter to work on day work, tell him your situation and use him to help with the complicated bits. 

Start with him for say 3-4 days and leave you to fill in easy bits for a couple of weeks then get him back again for 3-4 days. 

 

On your own you will be lost, sorry but you need to be realistic. 

[Declan52]

The hardest part and most critical will be the joists so please get some one into to help you set these correct or you will be in a world of deep stuff. 

Once the floor is in then it's much more simple until you get to the roof Where I'm afraid you will need help. 

If you get the roof on then you can batter away to your heart's content. 

[nod]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

That is the same system I used even the same render system.  If you are planning on render then have a discussion with me first, I have some issues with the top coat delaminating in a few places which is still an ongoing issue but investigation has halted at the moment due to CV-19.

Bit off thread Dave 

Any areas delaminated The whole panel ie Gable or front needs to be redone Usually contractor will stand the labour Manufacturer stands materials and scaffolding 

[nod]

I would see when he is intending coming back 

I know a lot of my friends have shut up shop and will take the payout in July A lot of the labour shortages are being caused by over generous government payments 

[LA3222]

You have my sympathies @redtophowever little that will help though.  Self building can be a challenge at times and you have just hit a turbo rough patch. 

 

If you are at joists level then I cant see why you wouldnt be capable of doing it (although getting help would be the ideal situation for your own sanity). If you have detailed drawings of joists layout etc and take it steady you will get there in the end. There are others on here who have done their joists themselves, learning hard lessons along the way, @AnonymousBosch springs to mind as someone who has installed his joists. I am sure he has detailed his experiences along the way within several threads on this forum.

 

Good luck to you?

[PeterW]

Ok so if I’m reading this correctly @redtop you’ve still got another full panel system to build on top of that steel frame  that is there ..? You’ve also got joists to add to make the floor up ..?

 

First and foremost, you’ll need to understand some more on those designs as the key joints between steelwork and the timber joists are identified as being “to structural engineers design” so you need to know what that is. From

looking at it, there seems to be a timber infill into to the face of the steels, and then a proprietary joist hanger but that would need the engineer to confirm - you can’t guess that sort of thing from looking at a drawing.  
 

It looks like the floor hangs below the top of the steels which is unusual - I wonder if you could potentially redesign with a timber ring beam on top of the steel and reduce the topside wall panel height slightly to compensate. 
 

I would seriously get an SEng involved though - the BCO will ask for the engineers details and if you’ve paid for it then it’s rightfully yours. 
 

 

[Mr Punter]

The issue here is twofold - skills and money.

 

Was the plan originally to do most of the work yourself?

 

In terms of cost, what is currently on site is probably only 35% of the total cost, so you need to make sure you have funds of the other 65% to complete this before going further.

 

Did the builder draw more money than they were due?  Can you get him back, or is that a lost cause?

[redtop]

6 hours ago, PeterW said:

Ok so if I’m reading this correctly @redtop you’ve still got another full panel system to build on top of that steel frame  that is there ..? You’ve also got joists to add to make the floor up ..?

 

First and foremost, you’ll need to understand some more on those designs as the key joints between steelwork and the timber joists are identified as being “to structural engineers design” so you need to know what that is. From

looking at it, there seems to be a timber infill into to the face of the steels, and then a proprietary joist hanger but that would need the engineer to confirm - you can’t guess that sort of thing from looking at a drawing.  
 

It looks like the floor hangs below the top of the steels which is unusual - I wonder if you could potentially redesign with a timber ring beam on top of the steel and reduce the topside wall panel height slightly to compensate. 
 

I would seriously get an SEng involved though - the BCO will ask for the engineers details and if you’ve paid for it then it’s rightfully yours. 
 

 

one advantage I have is the whole house sits on steel posts and then a steel ring beam.  and these are infilled, joist hangers and joists; already done and passed by BC. so the roof and 2nd floor joists are exactly the same as ground floor.  Timber in fill and wood on top and then standard hangers. I have all the timber; green and joists. its actually not a complicated build timber wise;  2 rectangles on ground floor with a triangle joining them and one rectangle on 1st floor with steels doing most of the support work.

 

have I built a house before, nope. but I have renovated quite a few so know my way around the basics and have all the tools. I have done the underground drains, can do the plumbing, electrics, UFH, etc. original plan was to finish ourselves once roof was on. TBH I have spent ages going round correcting the mistakes the builder made, was just shoddy work.

[redtop]