'Designer' basins missing overflows

[daiking]

Why?

 

This is just an accident waiting to happen

[joe90]

I have always thought that!!!

[Barney12]

Simples!

 

Because you don't use them you just look at them!!

[daiking]

It's a serious question. Why are they no longer a standard feature on a basin? 

 

We have 2 like this. I use the term designer loosely, as in not a traditional round basin shape.

[Declan52]

I bought 2 as well and didn't notice till they where installed.

[Temp]

I half remember reading that an overflow is a Building Regs requirement ?? That said we don't have one on one of our basins.

 

Some free standing basins have a hidden overflow built into the waste. The seal is lower than normal and the basin contains a hidden pipe that bypasses the seal when the water level in the basin gets too high. I will try and make/find a drawing. 

[Temp]

Here you go.. A waste with hidden overflow..

 

http://www.bathroomspareparts.co.uk/ideal-standard-idealflow-hidden-basin-overflow-assembly-chrome-n8326aa-31883-p.asp

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Temp

[Temp]

Hidden overflow built into the ceramic of the basin..

http://www.laufen.com/wps/wcm/connect/laufen_com/en/products/features-and-benefits/sanitary-ware/concealed-ceramic-overflow

 

Our concealed ceramic overflow system, the alternative to standard overflows for washbasins and bidets, has many benefits. Thanks to our overflow system which is invisible from the outside, our washbasins and bidets no longer have a visible overflow hole, which not only improves the appearance of the product, it also makes cleaning much easier. This hygienic and aesthetic innovation is very simple: water rises in a concealed internal channel in parallel with the water inside the washbasin, and overflows into the run-off when the water reaches the maximum level.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Temp

[daiking]

I shall investigate further...

[AliG]

Does that only work if the waste is open?

 

I had similar thoughts previously, what if a kid closes the waste and then leaves the tap running, it has stopped me buying basins in the past.

 

If I was getting a designer basin I would go for something with a free flow waste and a slot drain as no one can accidentally leave the waste closed. Also I have found that the chrome deteriorates around the wastes on a well used basin over time, whereas the actual basin might look fine.

 

 

[daiking]

Double checked so as not to look (even more of) an idiot. Even filled them up to the point of overflow when I bottled it and stopped the tap/opened the waste. 

 

No overflow on 2 basins.

[Ferdinand]

OBviously intended for use in wet rooms  .

 

Ferdinand

[ProDave]

Okay, I will ask a dumb question.  What is the purpose of an overflow?  I can only assume it's for if you put the plug in, tirn on the tap, then go away and forgert you have left the tap running.

 

I don't think I can recall ever having a situation where the overflow overflowed. I could live without one.
 

[daiking]

9 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

OBviously intended for use in wet rooms  .

 

Ferdinand

 

a very wet room

 

38 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Okay, I will ask a dumb question.  What is the purpose of an overflow?  I can only assume it's for if you put the plug in, tirn on the tap, then go away and forgert you have left the tap running.

 

I don't think I can recall ever having a situation where the overflow overflowed. I could live without one.
 

 

Do you struggle with empathy Dave?

 

Wives, children, plughole fairies, you name it. Still, I'd have to be convinced that a typical overflow will discharge the equivalent of mains pressure water as it is direct delivered. Said wives, children, plughole fairies only operate quarter-turn taps in a binary fashion.

 

0 = tap off

1 = flooding the bathroom with splashback

[Temp]

I recently tested the overflow on a WC cistern and it didn't cope with the fill rate. Had to fit a reducer.

[daiking]

23 minutes ago, Temp said:

I recently tested the overflow on a WC cistern and it didn't cope with the fill rate. Had to fit a reducer.

 

as I just suggested, this is all moot then!

 

However, if using quarter turn isolation valves on the cistern supply I suppose you could not open them fully to provide some flow restriction.

 

(Until you need to close it and find it seized part open)

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

I recently tested the overflow on a WC cistern and it didn't cope with the fill rate. Had to fit a reducer.

 

Oddly that is why most of the new ones don't use the 22mm overflow pipes but work on the spill over principle into the bowl, also giving a visible indication of an issue. 

[Nickfromwales]

42 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

Oddly that is why most of the new ones don't use the 22mm overflow pipes but work on the spill over principle into the bowl, also giving a visible indication of an issue. 

And no draught . 

[Temp]

11 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

Oddly that is why most of the new ones don't use the 22mm overflow pipes but work on the spill over principle into the bowl, also giving a visible indication of an issue. 

 

Thing is mine was a spillover type!

[ryder72]

The reason is simple. Most designer products are built for the European markets where they use high pressure systems with flow restrictors and low flow rates through taps. Flooding basins isnt their way of doing things and they run the tap as needed without wasting water. They were very early adaptors of the high pressure systems. Hence no overflows. I am not saying that is right or wrong. I personally prefer not to see overflows.

 

Check out the Clou system of overflows. I have a shockwave file which demonstrates it but I am not allowed to attach it here.

[daiking]

2 hours ago, ryder72 said:

The reason is simple. Most designer products are built for the European markets where they use high pressure systems with flow restrictors and low flow rates through taps. Flooding basins isnt their way of doing things and they run the tap as needed without wasting water. They were very early adaptors of the high pressure systems. Hence no overflows. I am not saying that is right or wrong. I personally prefer not to see overflows.

 

Check out the Clou system of overflows. I have a shockwave file which demonstrates it but I am not allowed to attach it here.

 

Interesting. Still doesn't account for accidents/forgetfulness.

 

Is there an obvious failure mode for 1/4 turn cartridges allowing a flow even though a tap in nominally closed?

[ryder72]

A good plumber should fit an unslotted waste on this type of basin eliminating the possibility of anyone shutting the waste and flooding the basin.

 

The clou system wont overflow. In the off position water simply drains down the waste. In the 'on' position the waste still visibly stays open but the lever action activates a valve which redirects water flow to a level set by the user. This allows the basin to fill up to the set point after which water simply enters the basin, flows down the waste over the hidden overflow and down the drain. Its a very clever system.

 

 

[Tennentslager]

Hey @ryder72

How is your build going?

[ryder72]

8 hours ago, Tennentslager said:

Hey @ryder72

How is your build going?

Good so far. MBC have got the frame up at lighting speed. Roofing starts on Monday and glazing arrives on the 12th. All going well we will have a wind and watertight house by Christmas.

 

Then the fun begins.