H F Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 On 29/01/2020 at 17:41, ProDave said: I don't suppose you have any documentation how it is wired? No we don’t because it was fitted to replace an oil boiler system we have for the ASHP, but not what’s wired to what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Basically what we need to know is, if, when the heating is turned on / off, does the brown wire get energised / de-energised ? If it does then the controls that are giving the signal are fine and the motorised head is duff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, dpmiller said: the valve works when it gets a supply of electrical power. You haven't yet confirmed that this is happening. Once you do this than you can confirm that either the valve (it's motor on top) has failed, or instead part of the control circuitry upstream (UFH wiring centre/ stats/ timeswitch/ ASHP controller even maybe) Right. We our plumber coming in next week to do some unrelated pipework. I’ll ask him to have a look at the valve and we’ll see whether it’s getting electricity supply. Is it possible the valve has “blown”? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: Basically what we need to know is, if, when the heating is turned on / off, does the brown wire get energised / de-energised ? If it does then the controls that are giving the signal are fine and the motorised head is duff. OK. That’s clear enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Home Farm said: OK. That’s clear enough. To clarify ( for others ) it's the brown wire that feeds the motorised valve actuator head that I'm referring to. That will be a 5-wire arrangement; Brown = Call for heat / demand - which when energised spins the stepper motor and actuates the valve body Blue = Neutral Green / Yellow = Earth Orange = Common Grey = Switched live back to the heating system ( activated by the valve getting to 100% open and the actuator arm striking a micro-switch in the head thus completing the circuit ) 4&5 can be wired either way around without affecting operation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 24 minutes ago, Home Farm said: Right. We our plumber coming in next week to do some unrelated pipework. I’ll ask him to have a look at the valve and we’ll see whether it’s getting electricity supply. Is it possible the valve has “blown”? Yes, the motors are known to fail and are replaceable. Hopefully your plumber also does electric. Not all do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 I asked earlier if you have a multimeter? If you do, follow the cable coming out of the valve head it will go to a junction box or a wiring centre. Measure with the multimeter set to ac volts between the brown and the blue core. If there is no voltage, it is a control fault. If there is 240V there and the valve is not opening then the motor has gone and you need to replace the valve head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 Thanks for all the input above. I was going to action stuff today and woke up to all our thermostats and Heatmiser central wiring box dead. I’m guessing this was all interconnected. Some sort of electrical issue. Trying to get an electrician out to help us and test what’s gone wrong. On that note, we have new Neostat thermostats - do we have to go with a Heatmiser central wiring box or will another brand work Ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 On 01/02/2020 at 09:09, ProDave said: I asked earlier if you have a multimeter? If you do, follow the cable coming out of the valve head it will go to a junction box or a wiring centre. Measure with the multimeter set to ac volts between the brown and the blue core. If there is no voltage, it is a control fault. If there is 240V there and the valve is not opening then the motor has gone and you need to replace the valve head. No, I don’t have a multimeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, Home Farm said: No, I don’t have a multimeter. £1.99 https://www.screwfix.com/p/roughneck-electrical-mains-tester-screwdriver-100-250v-ac-slotted-3-0mm-x-80mm/9019x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 31 minutes ago, joe90 said: £1.99 https://www.screwfix.com/p/roughneck-electrical-mains-tester-screwdriver-100-250v-ac-slotted-3-0mm-x-80mm/9019x I need to invest in one... for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 I spoke to the support team at Heatmiser and they suggested that perhaps the motorised valve shorted out the circuit board on the wire control box. Does that sound remotely viable? I’ve ordered my multimeter and will test the motorised valve when it arrives. I will also replace the fuse in the heat miser to see whether that allows it to turn back on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 I thought you had an electrician on the way? What has he found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 18 minutes ago, Home Farm said: I spoke to the support team at Heatmiser and they suggested that perhaps the motorised valve shorted out the circuit board on the wire control box. Does that sound remotely viable? I’ve ordered my multimeter and will test the motorised valve when it arrives. I will also replace the fuse in the heat miser to see whether that allows it to turn back on Unlikely. From memory the boards have a number of fuses to stop that sort of thing happening, wouldn’t be the first time though I’ve seen one wired wrong ... And sorry if I sound negative but I find Heatmiser to be expensive rubbish that us usually has to be ripped out when one component goes wrong as the units aren’t backward compatible more than 3-4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) On 29/01/2020 at 15:37, Home Farm said: Can I leave it on open as opposed to auto? Do you think this could be the cause? My guess is that valve is only meant to open when the UFH calls for heat. You might find it works fine left open but it may heat the UFH manifold and pipework unnecessarily when the rads are calling for heat. Edited February 3, 2020 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 On 01/02/2020 at 09:09, ProDave said: I asked earlier if you have a multimeter? If you do, follow the cable coming out of the valve head it will go to a junction box or a wiring centre. Measure with the multimeter set to ac volts between the brown and the blue core. If there is no voltage, it is a control fault. If there is 240V there and the valve is not opening then the motor has gone and you need to replace the valve head. we have 240v between brown and blue core. the pipe underneath the motorised valve, leading to the manifold is cold. The pipe above it is hot. does this indicate having to change the valve motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Sounds like a dead head - easily changed. Got any photos of the clips holding it on or the manufacturer name on it.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 Here you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 Video of the motorised valve. IMG_1806.MOV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 This is the unit my local hardware store has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Standard synchro unit - how handy are you as you can change the motors but full heads are easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 The Tower units are a cheaper (almost) copy of the Honeywell valves. You have to take the cover off the actuator and there are then 2 screws that hold the actuator to the valve body. You can get the Tower units cheap on ebay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOWER-MOTORISED-ZONE-VALVE-ACTUATOR-HEAD-2-PORT-22mm-28mm-CAN-REPLACE-HONEYWELL/392072887213?hash=item5b495d7bad:g:sIAAAOSw37tWAsTx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 Can’t I just replace the motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 hours ago, PeterW said: Standard synchro unit - how handy are you as you can change the motors but full heads are easier. Thanks Peter. Handy skills are improving every day what is the head, and why would that be sufficient to address this issue I’m now facing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 Sorry for all the questions, but is the head visible here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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