Butlers pantry

[Russell griffiths]

Anybody got one, anybody got any views on layout or other stuff. 

Just trying to get some ideas going at the moment. 

Cheers russ. 

[Cpd]

Had to google it just to find out what it was........ well above my pay grade but looks like a very nice idea if your into good food and cooking. 
I wonder where larder and pantry change as a larder wants to be kept cool, what about a pantry ? 

[Simplysimon]

a large utility with fancy units

[Russell griffiths]

The name I suppose might mean a few different things. 

What we are thinking as our house is very open plan, is a little are off the side of the kitchen to chuck dirty pots and pans as you are cooking. 

If you imagine having a couple of friends over for dinner, the unpleasant bit about open plan kitchens is having to look at dirty pans while you are eating. 

 

we have a separate utility room for washing machine and things. 

[Dreadnaught]

I'm planning one for my forthcoming bungalow. A pantry of storage shelves which will also contain the (inevitably noisy) freezer and so keep it out of the open plan kitchen/living/dining room. In the kitchen proper I will only have an under counter fridge (no freezer and so quieter). The pantry will also have worktops and a (second) sink.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Dreadnaught

[Dan F]

These are popular in Austrailia from plans I've seen online.  Rather than being a second kitchen, it's more of a utility sized (or smaller) area with both storage and some worktop, decoupled from the ktichen which is typically open-plan.  The addition on a sink means they can be good for food prep too if required, and not just for hiding all the dirty stuff.

 

We saw some Metricon (australian builder) layouts with them in and really like the idea, especially the layouts that have a butlers pantry between the kitchen and utility and stole the idea for our house too.  We have slightly less storage cupboards in the kitchen because of this, and like @Dreadnaught we plan to put the freezer in here also, with frezzer and two full height 600mm storage units on one side and a counter-top with storage below on the other side.

 

We've not starting building yet, but this is where we got the idea from:

There is a walkthrough VR of this design here:  https://www.metricon.com.au/new-home-designs/qld/riviera?category=virtualtours&photo=riviera&floorplan=54

The metricon website also have plenty of other, more modest designs, with this concept too.

 

This is our intereptration of it (clear copy! bit smaller I think though, and with the addition of pocket doors)

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Dan Feist

[Nick1c]

We will be having a pantry next to our kitchen area in an open plan living room. It will house 2 compact dishwashers, a small sink, freezer and additional storage. Hopefully it will mean that the main room is quieter and less cluttered. 

[Russell griffiths]

Thanks everyone

i think I have opened up a big can of pain for myself, I originally looked at this idea on an Australian tv show, then I looked on that Houzz site and bloody hell my whole kitchen layout is going to change. 

Im glad I don’t have a builder as he would want to kill us. 

Cheers russ. 

[ProDave]

To me the pantry looks like just a utility room with the inconvenience of an extra door put before the bit with the washing machine.

 

I also note we have done something "odd" in our kitchen.  We have put the hob in the island, and the sink is along the wall under the window.  Everyone else seems to put the sink in the island and hob along the wall.

 

I guess you just do what suits your needs and not everyone will like it. But if you do that is all that matters.

 

I do agree about noise, I insisted we have a separate lounge as well as the "familly room" (kitchen / diner in my book) as I don't want to be watching telly with the bloody dishwasher churning away in the same room.  But a dishwasher needs to be in the kitchen, I would find it a huge inconvenience to bury that in a separate room. 

[Dan F]

8 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I also note we have done something "odd" in our kitchen.  We have put the hob in the island, and the sink is along the wall under the window.  Everyone else seems to put the sink in the island and hob along the wall.

 

That's not odd!  We have the same in our rental property and are doing the same in our design and putting the hob on the island.  We are doing something even odder than you though... our sink isn't under a window! For some reason everyone seems to put a sink under a window.   Does this come from when everyone used to wash-up by hand, and the view made it less boring I wonder?

 

8 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I do agree about noise, I insisted we have a separate lounge as well as the "familly room" (kitchen / diner in my book) as I don't want to be watching telly with the bloody dishwasher churning away in the same room.  But a dishwasher needs to be in the kitchen, I would find it a huge inconvenience to bury that in a separate room. 

 

We'll have diswasher in kitchen (near sink), but like you have not gone full open-plan, as it's just not practical.  We have kitchen/breakfast as one area, and then more formal dining/lounge as  another area, connected by full-height pocket doors.

 

[ProDave]

Even with a dishwasher,, there is always some washing up.  And you do all your vegetable peeling and preparation at the sink, so I like it having probably the best view in the whole house.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Thanks everyone , I  think I have opened up a big can of pain for myself,[...]

 

Just the one can ? Is that all?  Doin' well mate. Doin' well.

[MikeSharp01]

53 minutes ago, ProDave said:

 

I also note we have done something "odd" in our kitchen.  We have put the hob in the island, and the sink is along the wall under the window.  Everyone else seems to put the sink in the island and hob along the wall.

Not odd but interesting. When entertaining you want to talk to your guests so I am not sure why you would not have both sink and hob on the island, suitably separated of course. I find the most interesting thing when looking at other peoples kitchens is where the oven is in relation to the hob, if not directly under it. After all they have no direct relationship unless you are finishing off something under the grill that was previously on the hob and of course most peoples hobs are the landing places of trays etc from the hot oven.

 

Wonder if there are any stats other than those associated with the well known triangle to show the average time spent at each of the stations of the kitchen when prepping an average meal.

[ProDave]

23 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Not odd but interesting. When entertaining you want to talk to your guests so I am not sure why you would not have both sink and hob on the island, suitably separated of course.

Except 99% of the time we are not entertaining, just cooking for ourselves.  Our plot is a bit odd between houses and lots of trees.  The kitchen sink window, by virtue of being on the side of the house, at the front, looking down the road in front of the other houses, is the only one that can see the mountains.  So I do like it as a back drop to "sink work"

 

For the same reason, the seating on the island faces the same way for that same view.

 

It is all very personal and depends on your lifestyle etc.

 

Oven is separate to hob.  I long ago decided a low level oven is a silly place to put it imho.

[MikeSharp01]

Hmmm. Looking into my comment above I found this ref:

 

"Developed in the early twentieth century, the working triangle—also known as "the kitchen triangle," also known as "the golden triangle"—is a theory that states a kitchen’s three main work areas should form, you guessed it, a triangle. Specifically, the sink, the refrigerator, and the stove. By the mid-twentieth century this theory was widely disseminated and still, miraculously, applies today. According to its tenets, each leg of the triangle formed should be between four and nine feet each, and the sum distance of the triangle should not be less than 13 or more than 26 feet. So neither too far apart or too compact. (In my own kitchen, the segment between the sink and the refrigerator is far shorter than the requisite four feet, thus creating a bottleneck.)" [Source accessed 11.01.202]

 

So our idea of having the fridge, dishwashers - yes 2, sink and hob all on the island just got a knock back.

 

[MikeSharp01]

Bit more reading and I find this:

 

"Today we’d like to take the opportunity to kill the idea of the Kitchen Work Triangle as a design tool that is out of date and should be out of our thinking process." [Source accessed 11.01.2020]

 

More work needed this end I fear.

[AliG]

I thought about this idea on our house when I read about a "prep" kitchen which is a similar idea.

 

I liked the idea of having one area where you would have sinks, dishwashers, fridge/freezer etc and you would make food out of sight and keep all the pots and pans etc.

 

Then you would have another area where you might just have facilities for drinks etc and would be more for show than working.

 

The trouble is, although this sounds a nice idea, my wife and myself depending on who is cooking usually stand and make things at the island whilst talking to other family members. My daughter usually sits at the kitchen table whilst my wife cooks for example. My wife in particular didn't like the idea of being stuck in a small room and unable to talk to people whilst cooking. Instead we have the hob and a sink on the island so you can face out to other people in the kitchen whilst working. You can cut veg etc at the space in between them. Depending on what you are making the hob is the place you often stand for some length of time, imagine making pancakes for example. I guess if one person tends to be in the kitchen on their own all the time then this arrangement may work better.

 

This kind if layout would seem to work very well for a party where you might want guests to not see the work in the background, but not very well for day to day living. I guess looking at the suggested layout above you could have an area where you put the dirty dishes and pots and pans whilst still cooking in the main kitchen but that seems a bit of a back and forward faff.

 

TBF we have a small upstairs kitchen that we put in as we had a free space and i felt it might be useful for a granny flat or something similar in the future. A few times now when we have had a party I have cooked all the sausage rolls etc up there then just brought them down so that I do not have to work around people in the kitchen and it works really well. But again it seems that the two kitchens/two areas idea is more for entertaining than for family life.

 

Then there is the idea of a pantry for food storage. These are also quite trendy and my wife did ask for one. I couldn't find a space to fit one in and basically all the dry food we have fits in one cupboard. I am not sure that a large pantry wouldn't just encourage the accumulation of stuff we don't need.

 

On the should the oven be next to the hob question, we had a similar issue. I was struggling with the kitchen design until I decided that the fridge and freezer didn't have to be next to each other. Ovens and hobs used to be together because they were all in one cooker and fridges and freezers used to also be together because they were also oneunti. Once they are separate items they is no actual practical reason to keep them next to each other.

 

[Dan F]

1 hour ago, AliG said:

The trouble is, although this sounds a nice idea, my wife and myself depending on who is cooking usually stand and make things at the island whilst talking to other family members. My daughter usually sits at the kitchen table whilst my wife cooks for example. My wife in particular didn't like the idea of being stuck in a small room and unable to talk to people whilst cooking. Instead we have the hob and a sink on the island so you can face out to other people in the kitchen whilst working. You can cut veg etc at the space in between them. Depending on what you are making the hob is the place you often stand for some length of time, imagine making pancakes for example. I guess if one person tends to be in the kitchen on their own all the time then this arrangement may work better.

 

We are thinking about it as a largish walk-in pantry, primarily for freezer and food storage cupabords just with the added bonus/flexibility of there being a decent-sized worktop and a small sink, but definitly no hob or cooker!  We were thinking that a food processor could potentially live on this worktop though, so as to not take up room in the kitchen and so we don't feel to need to put it away (so I guess that could be classed as "prep").  We considered putting a dishwasher in here, but decided it's best by the main/large sink in the kitchen, especially as we plan to fit an erator.

 

1 hour ago, AliG said:

On the should the oven be next to the hob question, we had a similar issue. I was struggling with the kitchen design until I decided that the fridge and freezer didn't have to be next to each other. Ovens and hobs used to be together because they were all in one cooker and fridges and freezers used to also be together because they were also oneunti. Once they are separate items they is no actual practical reason to keep them next to each other.

 

We don't have oven/hob next to each other either. We'll have:

- Hob on island, sink on side wall.

- Dishwasher and sink next to each other, with bin close by.

- Dishwasher somewhere it won't be too much of a pain when open.

- Fridge somewhere you can get to easily from breakfast/dining area without having to go past oven/hob/sink or do a lap around an island.

- Microwave/kettle also somewhere with easy access from breakfast/dining area.

- Freezer in pantry not in kitchen.

 

[dpmiller]

In our house, I do most of the cooking and neither of us are much for entertaining. Plus, we're moving from having a convenience store 400m away to somwhere a *bit* more isolated so shopping habits will change a bit.

Still haven't decided on an island yet although if there is one it'll be more a visual cue and somewhee for breakfast I think.

 

Kitchen is a broad U at one end of the open-plan room.  Fridgefreezer (small daily freezer) on left, sink and dishwasher centre below the window, rangecooker in right-hand corner.

 

Utility will have a sink, the washing machine and a large freezer. Walk-in larder off it for bulk storage.