Relatives working on site.

[ToughButterCup]

My my what an unexpected minefield.

 

Delighted that they come and lend a hand. Delighted to be able to do jobs I couldn't do without their physical help. Lift, shift, move, squeeze, jiggle left a bit, right a bit. But beyond that... 

 

I hadn't realised that unskilled help from a relative is just that. The same as unskilled help from anyone else. It's me that got it wrong. Putting someone Whose main job is to move electrons round a hard disk in charge of a speed square is a recipie for repeat cuts on the same bit of 3 by2.

 

It's all the fault of teachers innit? I  mean  vey dun lern Um nuffin veez days do um?

 

[Construction Channel]

You made an assumption didn't you... 

[joe90]

I know I have always been an avid DIYer but it still astounds me how little other people know about basic stuff like cutting timber. Probably why I usually work on my own, it’s easier!!! (Unless it’s too heavy or needs another pair of hands).

[Jeremy Harris]

I've found it easy to offend people by refusing offers of help, but experience has taught me that often I'd spend more time showing someone how to do something, and checking that they are doing it properly and safely, than I would if I just did the job myself, without help.

[joe90]

Also,  being a fussy bugger I find other people’s standards don’t usually meet mine ?

[ToughButterCup]

But everyone wants to help' Its a minefield.

Ifeel awful if all I need is some muscle and hard work. And they dont know how to shovel (say) gravel so that their back is still usable after for hours of the same hard graft.

[SteamyTea]

Just tell them you gave to officially employ them to get insurance cover. And they may get their dole money stopped.

@joe90 @Jeremy Harris just had a conversation about skills in the workplace. How would practical skills help an 'internet influencer'. As much as I dislike all this modern nonsense, it is a living for some people.

[Russell griffiths]

I’m a bit disappointed I cannot have my life over again as I believe the amount your average bloke in the street can do is getting less and less each year, I firmly believe the multi skilled man will be able to change whatever they want to do the simplest of tasks, as your average bod is incapable of changing a plug. 

[ProDave]

Some people's lack of practicality astounds me.

 

One of the relatives we visited over the last week had a wobbly toilet seat, to the point that the ladies were advised to use the other toilet.  It was just the fixing bolt to the pan that had come loose.  They told me this was the third seat that had "broken" and they could not afford to keep on buying new seats.

 

I once watched in agony at my sister trying to drill a hole to fix something to a wall, before I could not help myself and said "give me the bloody drill before you break something"

 

The best thing unskilled help can provide is assistance lifting something that is too heavy or too big be be lifted by one.

[ProDave]

1 minute ago, Russell griffiths said:

I firmly believe the multi skilled man will be able to change whatever they want to do the simplest of tasks, as your average bod is incapable of changing a plug. 

Changing a plug is not something taught now.  It is a redundant skill as everything now comes with a plug on.

 

My MUM taught me to fit a plug when I was not very old at all.

[Jeremy Harris]

11 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

I’m a bit disappointed I cannot have my life over again as I believe the amount your average bloke in the street can do is getting less and less each year, I firmly believe the multi skilled man will be able to change whatever they want to do the simplest of tasks, as your average bod is incapable of changing a plug. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Changing a plug is not something taught now.  It is a redundant skill as everything now comes with a plug on.

 

My MUM taught me to fit a plug when I was not very old at all.

 

A while ago I got severely reprimanded on another forum for suggesting that it was easy to make up a robust, heavy duty, extension lead that would make low rate car charging easier when staying away somewhere.   I made up such a lead when I first got the Prius Plug-in back in 2013, and had found it invaluable.  On that forum I just gave a list that included an RCD protected plug, H07RN-F cable and a suitable IP68 socket I'd found that was big enough to close over the largest moulded-on plug (the low rate chargers that all electric cars come with often have larger than normal 13 A plugs for some reason), with no instructions on how to wire up the plug or socket (I assumed everyone would just know how to do this).  The forum admin moderated my post, and warned me that if I had given instructions on how to wire up a plug and socket my post would be viewed as being llegal, as that no one other than a fully qualified electrician should attempt such a thing.  Needless to say I just quit and deleted my content, as there was no point arguing about it.

 

Like you, @ProDave, my mother taught me how to wire a plug.  Although it doesn't apply now, every time I do wire one up I can hear her voice reminding me to put the "red on the right".

 

 

 

 

[ProDave]

If I posted the "design" for one of my favourite extension leads I would have to delete my post them.  I had a good length of 5 core 2.5mm screened flex "donated" so I made a nice long lead using two cores in parallel for L and N and one core plus the braid for earth.  It took some soldering and heat shrink sleeving to do it, and the old style MK mains plugs will accommodate two 2.5mm cores if you are careful.

 

Of course nobody should ever attempt such a thing.

 

It was built not for particularly large loads, but to minimise voltage drop.

[scottishjohn]

and we can blame all this on the education system which has for decades looked down upon manual skilled workers  as being a FAILURE--and it is instilled at school that paper certs is the only way forward ,so we now have people who canb,t do diddly if its not on a key board 

 when you need to have a 3 day course to teach someone to use a ladder !! 

when taking on trainee mechanics i have always found that with 2 weeks you know if they are going to cut it .

 I suppose now that would be 2 months ,by the time you allow for the hours they stand about looking at mobile phones .

last one i had  left when itold him he could not use his phone inworks time --just looking for a pay cheque not a trade.

 

that is the biggest brain killer out there -snap crap  face box ,etc etc .

I also think it was wtrong to make kids stay at school so long 

If you interest  is in a skill ,then you need them young when the enthusuiasm is still there and they will listen  .

not everyone is suited for acamdemic life  as the school system seems to think 

 

 

 

[andyscotland]

21 minutes ago, ProDave said:

The best thing unskilled help can provide is assistance lifting something that is too heavy or too big be be lifted by one.

 

Tbh even that is sometimes a minefield. Quite often had issues with being pushed/pulled/tipped/overbalanced by someone who can't grasp basic handling techniques and doesn't listen to instructions.

 

Actually the worst is the kind passersby - almost always male - that are determined to dive in uninvited and grab/lift a bit of my MiLs wheelchair to "help" us down steps/up kerbs. 99% of the time aren't open to being told what to do or politely refused by either MiL or the pusher. Have had several close shaves where a well-meaning person has nearly landed us all upside down on the pavement on top of her. Now got quite good at assertively refusing as they approach which probably comes across as rude, but seems to be the only way to keep her safe.

 

5 minutes ago, ProDave said:

If I posted the "design" for one of my favourite extension leads I would have to delete my post them.

 

Yours sound pretty safe and straightforward compared to some I've used over the years. The two-13A-plugs-to-one-commando-socket adaptors commonly used to power lighting kit in temporary venues always raised eyebrows - but never singed any.

 

Or there was the Murrayfield gig where the crew ran the 300A distribution cables back through the stadium to the generators in the car park with the plugs at the wrong end, prompting the touring spark to knock up a set of 300A plug-to-plug adapters as there wasn't time to re-run the cables...

 

Think too many of us grew up watching"don't try this at home" shows ?

[joe90]

yes to all the above....... I remember my son when he was about 8, I had just done something practical to resolve a problem And when he asked me how I knew how to do it I said it was common sense!  he announced he wanted to go to university and get a degree in common sense.
I love learning how to do stuff, for our site I bought an old JCB and people asked me how I was going to learn how to drive it, I replied “how hard can it be, I will just waggle levers till it does what I want “. (I did go on the internet to understand certain safety aspects).

[MikeSharp01]

20 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

If you interest  is in a skill ,then you need them young when the enthusuiasm is still there and they will listen 

Not sure this is ever a thing these days. We do have a skills gap but it is not in wiring plugs. It is in finding finance and inginuity to set up and run tech businesses up and down the land or getting sponsorship to be an e-sports contestant!  Let others make the leads while we stand on the shoulders of giants and use them to power the internet of things and clever ideas leveraging our data  currently being massively exploited by others ,that the people who make the leads will want to buy. EG intelligent grids, great games, clever prime movers etc. I think, like most here that this would be all wrong but having bashed away at the industrial age for years I am now of the opinion that it is our future is not there, probably beyond the information age and well into the data age. 

[ProDave]

For a bit of light relief.  This was the extension lead I found IN USE by the roofers at a new build house I was wiring, feeding from a 240V generator to a tile cutter in use on the scaffold.

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

32 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

and we can blame all this on the education system which has for decades looked down upon manual skilled workers  as being a FAILURE--and it is instilled at school that paper certs is the only way forward ,so we now have people who canb,t do diddly if its not on a key board 

Now just think of everyone was capable of doing what you can do, that would have (expletive deleted)ed your business pretty quick.

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

Some people's lack of practicality astounds me.

Most people lack of science education astounds me.

36 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

I also think it was wtrong to make kids stay at school so long 

Is it also wrong to force people into an unsuitable job, don't do anyone any favours that (I hated most of the jobs I did).  I was just after the pay.

 

It is interesting that on this forum, which is basically about practical things, other skills are not highly regarded (like Architects).

While I agree that our education systems is broken, and our employment practices are not very good either, they cannot be that bad as we have a pretty strong economy in global terms, very good healthcare, a society that is pretty free from crime, safe roads, clean drinking water, a natural gas network that dos not explode, a national grid that keeps going, shops with food in them, a reliable civil service, etc etc.

Now you could take any one of them, except maybe the gas and electrical girds and find a better one somewhere, but as a whole, we stand up pretty well.

[ToughButterCup]

31 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

...

and we can blame all this on the education system which has for decades looked down upon manual skilled workers  as being a FAILURE--and it is instilled at school that paper certs is the only way forward ,so we now have people who canb,t do diddly if its not on a key board

...

There ya go. Knew it was our fault.

 

I'd agree with you John if my German family didn't moan about exactly the same thing among the people employed in their  company. Even in a society which values practical skills.

 

I wanted to emphasise how difficult it is for self builders to manage the family dynamic in the pressured environment of self building. The problem here is poor management, not low skill levels.

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, AnonymousBosch said:

The problem here is poor management

Too true, I have only worked for a couple of places that had good management.  I was the production manager at one of the worse places I worked, at least when I left the staff said I had done a good job, even if the bosses did not.

My Father was a member of the IMS or something similar.  He had it in his mind that British Management was peerless.  When I told him of some of the things that happened at the work places I was at, he just did not believe it.  

[DamonHD]

British management "peerless"?

 

Two problems with that (a) I'm sorta kinda parta British management these days, so help us all and (b) I believe I know several peers of the realm with management roles...  %^>

 

Rgds

 

Damon

[scottishjohn]

7 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Now just think of everyone was capable of doing what you can do, that would have (expletive deleted)ed your business pretty quick

It basically has 

,as no one ever wants an engine or a g/box rebuilt -they will scrap the car  ,as we are in a throw away world 

recyling or refurbishing just does not happen .

 and will not as long as it is cheaper to throw things away .

[Declan52]

Relatives are a great help.

See that big pile of heavy stuff carry it upstairs.

That load of waste that needs to go to the skip.

Hold the stupid end of the tape and walk over there and I will measure this.

These are the jobs for family. Nothing else.

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, DamonHD said:

I'm sorta kinda parta British management these days,

You can have a copy of my IMI management certificate that I got in 1983 if it helps.

2 minutes ago, DamonHD said:

I believe I know several peers of the realm

Went to school with one, we got caught smoke once.  He was barmy, just like his Dad.

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

will not as long as it is cheaper to throw things away

In many cases, that is better.  Uses less resources, forces people to buy a more efficient model, and many 'new' things last a very long time these days.

There will always be isolated exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.

But where these things designed and built by uneducated 'practical' people, or where they created by highly skilled and educated people?