Buying Block and Beam Flooring

[Blooda]

Hi, just wondered thoughts on where to buy block and beam flooring from [150 SqM] whether via a "builder merchants" or "concrete supplier".  I have the architects drawing, but do the suppliers do any engineering checks or further "design".  Also do the beams come to size or do they need cutting to size?

 

Thanks

A

[Russell griffiths]

I brought mine direct from the manufacturer, they normally come in 50 mm increments so might be 25-30 mm long but that just allows for a bit of wiggle room, didn’t cut any of mine. 

Builders merchants prices where a good £6-800 dearer. 

[Temp]

+1

 

Although a few of the beam suppliers seemed to mark up the blocks a bit. Try for nearest manufacture as transport can add.

[Temp]

If you send the manufacturer your construction drawings they will come up with a beam layout for you. If you have any big rooms it may be necessary to put a dwarf wall or steel (if it's a B&B first floor or you have a basement) to reduce the length of the concrete beams needed.

 

If a steel is needed you might need an SE to spec that and any padstones. Ours wanted us to use denser blocked in a few places.

[nod]

Ours was similar to yours 167 m2 

I went down the same route as you pricing everything up

I was going to lift them in with the jcb 

I found a company that did the job for not much more than I was being quoted for materials 

and to my surprise they brought a 30 ton crane Everything down in half a day 

2 men 1 driver 

[Oz07]

How much nod

[bassanclan]

When you get the engineering calcs chekhov the amount of deflection which they allow as "within tolerances"

I up specced the beams and still feel that they could feel more solid (4.8m span)

[Mr Punter]

12 hours ago, bassanclan said:

When you get the engineering calcs chekhov the amount of deflection which they allow as "within tolerances"

I up specced the beams and still feel that they could feel more solid (4.8m span)

 

Agreed and you can do this by having the blocks widthways (215mm) every row or every other row. They also sometimes specify double beams.  The beam supplier should be able to give you a design.

[epsilonGreedy]

On 23/12/2019 at 12:55, Blooda said:

I have the architects drawing, but do the suppliers do any engineering checks or further "design".  Also do the beams come to size or do they need cutting to size?

 

 

You should expect the B&B floor manufacturer to design and supply a guaranteed complete product (design & materials) from actual measurements based off the as-built footings . My Architectural Technician made a good guess re. the B&B floor design but in the small print there was a note saying "to be specified by the B&B supplier". The same applies to roof trusses.

 

The supplier was quite fussy and wanted extra details such as clarification whether a cooker chimney alcove was a real chimney or fake. I also had to get approval for using some left over 19kg blocks on short 2.5m spans where the design speced max 15kg blocks. The manufacturer's design will also specify vent positions which were delivered with the beams.

 

I did not cut any beams, they do overhang into the cavity in places. When the building control inspector visited I highlighted my concern over the degree of overhang and he said there was no problem.

[davejura]

Hi folks. Hope you don't mind me jumping in here. My engineers drawings are specifying 389mm centres for the beams, using 18kg blocks. He is basically saying we need to cut down standard 440mm blocks, all 1100 or so of them! Not only will this be very time consuming, there will be a lot of waste. Does anyone have any ideas? What size would the blocks need to be at 389mm centres? We have substantial under build, so a slab is not an option. What I thought was a simple, cost effective solution is turning out to be far from it! Thanks.

[Russell griffiths]

11 minutes ago, davejura said:

Hi folks. Hope you don't mind me jumping in here. My engineers drawings are specifying 389mm centres for the beams, using 18kg blocks. He is basically saying we need to cut down standard 440mm blocks, all 1100 or so of them! Not only will this be very time consuming, there will be a lot of waste. Does anyone have any ideas? What size would the blocks need to be at 389mm centres? We have substantial under build, so a slab is not an option. What I thought was a simple, cost effective solution is turning out to be far from it! Thanks.

Your engineer is an fool. have you been to the beam manufacturer to get the calcs done properly. 

As said earlier they will add in a couple of extra beams and alter the spacing down to 215 or one block at 440 then 215 then 440

Edited January 26, 2020 by Russell griffiths

[Vijay]

Is it a B&B supplier who's done the drawings or your structural engineer??

Exactly what Russell said is what happened with mine. I had to cut down a row of blocks as obviously you will be left with an un-exact block gap

Edited January 26, 2020 by Vijay

[davejura]

Makes total sense Russell, thanks for your input! Yes it is the engineer who has come up with the specification, but very vague. I think he is trying to steer me towards Comfloor 51, which i know nothing about. I think I will go back to them and ask if it can be manufacturer designed and that stated on the warrant drawings, same as the roof trusses. If they won't budge, is it easy to make an amendment with building control as long as I can show a satisfactory design from the manufacturer? 

Edited January 26, 2020 by davejura

[Vijay]

why not just send your plans to B&B suppliers yourself

[Russell griffiths]

22 minutes ago, Vijay said:

why not just send your plans to B&B suppliers yourself

Exactly,

how can your engineer spec a floor without knowing which floor supplier you would like to use. 

I got 3 quotes and each one was different as the beam manufacturers have different sized moulds to make the size of beams they like, we had a 100mm wide beam as span was 5m, other companies only had a 50-75mm wide beam so needed to add more beams for the same span. 

It is ok using an engineer for this but if he specs a certain type of beam how does he know it fits with your budget, engineers spec to cover their backs not your wallet. 

[Simplysimon]

don't allow the se to stagger the beams, put in a block thick wall to carry the ends of both beams it will save cutting a lot of blocks. for all the extra cost of founds and a block wall, i would also not span any more than 3m without a dwarf wall it's surprising how much bounce there is in them and that was with the beams doubled up. even with the concrete pourd on top if you jump there is slight movement.

[davejura]

 "engineers spec to cover their backs not your wallet. "

 

Totally right there Russell, as we are finding out!

 

Founds are double block anyway as we have a lot of under build, with a dwarf wall in the middle giving a span of about 3.8m for the beams. House is upside down, so bedrooms will be downstairs where the beam and block is. 

Thanks for your advice folks, onto beam and block companies tomorrow. Any recommendations? We are West Coast of Scotland.

[colin7777]

Would appreciate if anyone can recommend 2 or 3 block and beam supplier, if possible close to Norwich.

 

Thanks

Colin

[Russell griffiths]

2 minutes ago, colin7777 said:

Would appreciate if anyone can recommend 2 or 3 block and beam supplier, if possible close to Norwich.

 

Thanks

Colin

It’s a funny old world, when I got quotes for mine I thought transport would be expensive, so I looked for local firms. 

Then I read on here that I could have got them cheaper in Ireland including the transport, so I think the best thing is just send your plans off to two or three companies and see who you like. 

Concrete products are very cheap in Ireland. 

[jon-lee]

On 23/12/2019 at 12:55, Blooda said:

Hi, just wondered thoughts on where to buy block and beam flooring from [150 SqM] whether via a "builder merchants" or "concrete supplier".  I have the architects drawing, but do the suppliers do any engineering checks or further "design".  Also do the beams come to size or do they need cutting to size?

 

Thanks

A

Hi Blooda,

 

you are better off going direct to a manufacturer, a builders merchant is more expensive due to a mark-up (around 5-15%) however builders merchants will allow you an account where a manufacture will be proforma (paid upfront). just something consider. good look. 

[jon-lee]

Sorry i didnt even answer your question!! midlands area, forterra building products (message me privately a have a few direct contacts) 

[jon-lee]

On 24/12/2019 at 00:37, bassanclan said:

When you get the engineering calcs chekhov the amount of deflection which they allow as "within tolerances"

I up specced the beams and still feel that they could feel more solid (4.8m span)

don't pay for beam and block engineering calculations this is included as part of the design just ask the manufacture for the required O&M manual information

[jon-lee]

On 26/01/2020 at 10:59, Russell griffiths said:

Your engineer is an fool. have you been to the beam manufacturer to get the calcs done properly. 

As said earlier they will add in a couple of extra beams and alter the spacing down to 215 or one block at 440 then 215 then 440

i dont wish to anger any structural engineers, but the majority would admit they are not specialist pre-stressed floor beam engineers (some are), they wont spend time calculating this product but use available technical information such as load span tables, these are actually conservative with regards to achievable spans. for example increased spans can be achieve when in design, this could be the difference between specified a 225mm when a 150mm will work, quite a cost saving IMO.

[jon-lee]

On 26/01/2020 at 10:59, Russell griffiths said:

Your engineer is an fool. have you been to the beam manufacturer to get the calcs done properly. 

As said earlier they will add in a couple of extra beams and alter the spacing down to 215 or one block at 440 then 215 then 440

apologies for being "that guy" please be aware that 215 & 440 are not the beam ctrs but the infill block widths  

[bassanclan]

12 hours ago, jon-lee said:

don't pay for beam and block engineering calculations this is included as part of the design just ask the manufacture for the required O&M manual information

Yes I agree.

In my case the engineer from Hanson designed it based on 150 beam and gave a deflection which I felt was too high, so requested the 225 beam, (at no extra cost) which greatly reduced the deflection.

In retrospect, with such a small amount of concrete topping (50-60mm) I wish there was an even thicker beam option to make the floor seem even more solid

Edited July 23, 2023 by bassanclan