Roz Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 I don't even know if I want Grade A but the difference between these two samples from different companies seems significant! Larch. The one on the left is so much heavier too. They are both listed as Grade A. The one on the right didn't give me a straight answer when I asked if this was equivalent to Unsorted. I thought the price was too good to be true ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) @Roz The one on the left is much closer grain and should therefore be better. Edited November 13, 2019 by PeterStarck 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 also look how the grain runs in both bits --second one looks like fast grown pine-- crap 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 The price different isn't actually that huge as there's an offer on on the left hand stuff, but it's not the exact profile I wanted. But would rather it be decent stuff and worth the money! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Wood: sizes, weights, grades - nightmare. So much shared Internet-based ignorance. I've almost given up because if I do some due diligence before I go and buy, and then talk to the seller about the wood grade, the most common response is " ... Visss iz wot we sell son ... " The only thing to trust is the stamp on the wood itself. I went to see our producer ( ProWood near Wigan) and saw the stacks of wood ready for delivery to us. An order for a couple of thousand merits a visit, I recon. 25 x 150mm FSC Mix 70% US Larch KD 922.67 2,975.61 20.00 595.12 Mach to 18 x 144mm PAR. I asked for that to be de-coded, and was perfectly satisfied with the answer. Here's my Internet search to try and sort stuff out for myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 I will admit to having big misgivings on modern cladding unless you going to go for very expensive think thats why so many are done in the one up one down format --so they over lap and big shrinkage or growth with damp will not look bad which with T+G it can do when its starts moving about . If i go cladding in my build it will be man made boards -for that reason its everyones own choice . and the appearance you wanting my experience has not been good with modern cladding on other jobs and I do not like yearly retreating -- but thats just me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said: Wood: sizes, weights, grades - nightmare. So much shared Internet-based ignorance. I've almost given up because if I do some due diligence before I go and buy, and then talk to the seller about the wood grade, the most common response is " ... Visss iz wot we sell son ... " The only thing to trust is the stamp on the wood itself. I went to see our producer ( ProWood near Wigan) and saw the stacks of wood ready for delivery to us. An order for a couple of thousand merits a visit, I recon. 25 x 150mm FSC Mix 70% US Larch KD 922.67 2,975.61 20.00 595.12 Mach to 18 x 144mm PAR. I asked for that to be de-coded, and was perfectly satisfied with the answer. Here's my Internet search to try and sort stuff out for myself.... Yeah when I asked the company on the right if their Grade A was equivalent to unsorted, they didnt say yes or no, and started talking about knots, which just confused me (even though I know why and what they are, but in terms of comparison). Also you've made me realise that the one on the right also isn't FSC certified, or at least doesnt say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex C Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 You cant really compare two 6 inch lengths of timber and expect a truck load of it to be the same as your samples, there is going to be a lot of variation. Buy FSC certified from a reputable supplier and find out where the timber comes from. Scottish Larch is wider grained and more knotty, also cheaper, and it is possible that is what your sample on the right is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Alex C said: You cant really compare two 6 inch lengths of timber and expect a truck load of it to be the same as your samples, there is going to be a lot of variation. Buy FSC certified from a reputable supplier and find out where the timber comes from. Scottish Larch is wider grained and more knotty, also cheaper, and it is possible that is what your sample on the right is. Sorry I should have said, they're both siberian. Do you think they would vary this much within a batch from the same company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 I'll go and take a photo of my stacks and get back to you .....? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Left hand looks like Siberian larch heartwood. Right hand looks like crap and not genuine. The Siberian larch I have had was all a similar (high) density. It looked fairly ginger in colour. It is slow growing and the growth rings are therefore fairly tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Would it be inappropriate to ask who the 2 suppliers are? I'm shopping around for samples right now, one place seems impossible to get hold of let alone samples from, while another keeps chasing to see how they can help in our project. They're also less than half price of the former place..... which raises all the warning flags (for reasons others mention here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 When I was researching cedar cladding for our house I found specification documents which showed a reasonably clear way of grading the timber. I guess the same doesn't exist for larch. Guide to Western Red Cedar.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 22 minutes ago, joth said: Would it be inappropriate to ask who the 2 suppliers are? I'm shopping around for samples right now, one place seems impossible to get hold of let alone samples from, while another keeps chasing to see how they can help in our project. They're also less than half price of the former place..... which raises all the warning flags (for reasons others mention here) Hi Joth, I will PM you as dont know what the rules are! I have quotes from other companies too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) If I had to bet I would say the one on the right was English not Siberian. I have just given MillWorks a small fortune for cedar and it is absolutely spot on clear, not a knot in it anywhere. I did have samples of larch of them. It really is down to the look you are after, my neighbour has just done a huge barn in English grown Douglas fir and it looks very good are you after rustic or modern, treated or going to let it grey. Edited November 13, 2019 by Russell griffiths 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Just like with most other things, stay far away from English ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: If I had to bet I would say the one on the right was English not Siberian. I have just given MillWorks a small fortune for cedar and it is absolutely spot on clear, not a knot in it anywhere. I did have samples of larch of them. It really is down to the look you are after, my neighbour has just done a huge barn in English grown Douglas fir and it looks very good are you after rustic or modern, treated or going to let it grey. Hi Russell, I'm just waiting on a sample from Millworks, they're a bit more expensive though! We're going to let the timber silver, we want a natural but refined look, so think the larch with a shadow gap will do this well. It will go alongside the rest of our granite stone barn. I can't afford cedar but it is pretty! Edited November 13, 2019 by Roz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 In the end we bought our Western Red Cedar from the local timber yard and had it machined to our own profile. We had 4.8m lengths, no. 2 clear and better only, lovely stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Patrick said: Just like with most other things, stay far away from English ? In this sector, that is both true and very sad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 4 hours ago, PeterStarck said: @Roz The one on the left is much closer grain and should therefore be better. Much slower grown, so as Peter said, should be much stronger, and much better. The one on the right is quick grown, much lighter, and looks by comparison, SH*"E. You get what you pay for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) There is good advice on this thread - mainly to take time and care yourself, but I do not think we have an expert on the forum. First thought: You need to understand what "Grade A" means. I am also no expert, but the LH sample is a "tangential" cut (ie around the log) and looks to be either heatwood or a smaller tree, and the RHS one is some form of "quarter" or "radial" cut (ie out from the centre. I do not think the RHS one is rubbish - just different, through certainly faster grown. You need to know that your whole batch is the same, or at least understand the variability. They will behave differently on the wall - the LHS one may "cup" one way or the other on the wall, due to the grain - even though it is heavier. And that needs to be taken into account when you install. See: https://www.archtoolbox.com/materials-systems/wood-plastic-composites/woodlumbercuts.html My suggestion is to take advice from someone who has done lots of cladding, and be clear about what you want, to choose someone either reputable or local (Vincent Timber?), and to place quality before price. But you need to be clear on your goal first, and understand the particular boarding you are using and that it will fit your requirement. If that requires a little more care/money or a specialist (eg if your architect or other has done lots of cladding projects) to help you, then imo it is worth doing for such a prominent visual feature. OTOH timber is a fascinating subject to learn about yourself. Ferdinand Edited November 14, 2019 by Ferdinand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 I got another sample today. They do the profile I want but a bit more expensive... does anyone think the quality is significantly lower for the middle ones than the left ones? I don't want to pick profile over quality, but if it's not that significant then... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Not trying to state the obvious but I take it you are going to fit this vertically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 Just now, Russell griffiths said: Not trying to state the obvious but I take it you are going to fit this vertically. Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 Without wanting to be cynical (Ok, I am being cynical ?)...... What do you think the chances are that online/remote suppliers send you samples of their “better” pieces of timber? A foot long sample is not really going to be any guide to a large order which may come from multiple stock. I am with others in that find a local mill, go and look at the stock. If they’re half competent then they should be able to create any profile you want. Ok, you might spend a bit more but this is something you are going to look at for many, many years to come! just my 2p’s worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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