Switched sockets - whats the point?

[Fallingditch]

Can somebody help me with this? I am just about to order 80 assorted double sockets (some different colours). Then I thought, what is the point of specifiying switches to my sockets?  The only time I ever use a swtich is if I have a lamp plugged in. Otherwise its just ON the entire time.

 

At the same time I have worked with people who go around the place setting socket switches to OFF, which is very irritating vecause you subsequently plug something in and it DON'T WORK.

 

Is there a benefit to switches I am missing? Do switches for example reduce fire risk?

Edited October 5, 2016 by Fallingditch
typo correction

[Trw144]

I ve just ordered all my sockets without switches (admittedly it was nt an option). Like you I don't necessary see the need.

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, Fallingditch said:

Is there a benefit to switches I am missing? Do switches for example reduce fire risk?

They can isolate an appliance easily, so yes, they can reduce a fire risk if switched off at the socket.

 

I swap between bedrooms quite a bit and I find that flicking the switch on the unused alarm clock is useful, it don't go off at 5:15AM.

 

[Barney12]

35 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

They can isolate an appliance easily, so yes, they can reduce a fire risk if switched off at the socket.

 

I swap between bedrooms quite a bit and I find that flicking the switch on the unused alarm clock is useful, it don't go off at 5:15AM.

 

 

+1

Go on holiday and switch all non essential appliances of at the wall.

[Steptoe]

Make sure they are double pole switches though, and not single pole.

Personally, I wouldn't have any sockets that weren't switched, double pole of course.

[Gone West]

46 minutes ago, Steptoe said:

Make sure they are double pole switches though, and not single pole.

Personally, I wouldn't have any sockets that weren't switched, double pole of course.

 

I bought double pole switched sockets and the chap in the electrical shop said he hardly ever sells double pole because single pole are cheaper!

[Steptoe]

2 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

 

I bought double pole switched sockets and the chap in the electrical shop said he hardly ever sells double pole because single pole are cheaper!

This is one of the times you really do get what you pay for, why save a few pennies for safety,? 

and, it literally is pennies.

[ProDave]

Welcome to the forum Steptoe 

 

[Steptoe]

Thank you @ProDave

But you may not be saying that once I start with my inane stupid questions, 

 

This is one area where I am now the diy Bob and have not a lot of clue as to what I can and cannot safely do for myself regards structural stuff etc.

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Steptoe

[SteamyTea]

With the trend towards radial circuits rather than ring circuit, is there any real safety advantage in using double pole switches (general question as I can't really see why we don't have double pole switching on everything).

[Barney12]

6 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

With the trend towards radial circuits rather than ring circuit, is there any real safety advantage in using double pole switches (general question as I can't really see why we don't have double pole switching on everything).

 

Interested by that comment. A sparky friend recently mentioned just installing a radial circuit but protected by a 20amp breaker rather than 32amp. I had assumed it was because of some sort of site limitation and that a ring couldn't be achieved ?

[ProDave]

Whether it's ring or radial, makes no difference to the question of single or double pole. It makes no difference how the electricity gets there.

 

Some sparky's regard a ring circuit as old fashioned and prefer radial circuits. It all depends on the building and it's use. Neither is right or wrong.  You can have a 32A radial circuit if you use the right cable.
 

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, Barney12 said:

 

Interested by that comment. A sparky friend recently mentioned just installing a radial circuit but protected by a 20amp breaker rather than 32amp. I had assumed it was because of some sort of site limitation and that a ring couldn't be achieved ?

I'm not familiar with any trend towards radial tbh, other than dedicated circuits like heating control, smokes, alarm etc. Ring main is always our preferred method, but at least 3 rings ( down / up / kitchen ) so not sure about that afaik. 

Regarding double pole isolation, there is only really a requirement ( or need maybe I should say ) for DP when the appliance is hard wired. If there is a plug and you need to service / replace then you just pull the plug out . Unless you intend to work on something whilst it is connected to the mains then I really can't see the need for DP. 

[PeterW]

For the slightly dense one here... what is the benefit in radial for power circuits as surely a radial is just a ring with the last leg to the CU missing..?? I would have thought it needed a larger cable size so the cost of completing the ring circuit must be far cheaper..?

Or have I missed something..??

[Steptoe]

The main advantage is less points on a circuit, so better segregation under fault.

Ring circuits were mainly used during copper shortage as a smaller CSA cable could be used for the same rating of 'fuse'

Radial circuits are much more efficient to install, generally use less cable, and much better segregation of points,

I have a mixture of ring and radial in my house, 

I also have a mix of loop in and spider lighting too,

Whatever suits the circumstances best.

[Onoff]

39 minutes ago, PeterW said:

For the slightly dense one here... what is the benefit in radial for power circuits as surely a radial is just a ring with the last leg to the CU missing..?? I would have thought it needed a larger cable size so the cost of completing the ring circuit must be far cheaper..?

Or have I missed something..??

 

With a ring the load is in effect shared by the two legs going back to the cu. Think what happens when say one leg goes open circuit - all the load could be on one possibly now undersize cable leg. Every socket might still work until something melts.....or worse! Thinking about high load areas like the kitchen you might be better running a 32A radial (or two) in 4mm. It might serve to run 20A radial to low load areas like bedrooms for example. Testing is easier on radials too. Be aware some socket makes don't like accepting 4mm cables (tbh some struggle with 3x 2.5mm).

[JanetE]

.

 

When the plasterers have finally finished (they haven't arrived yet, 3 weeks late so far) we shall need to buy our sockets and switches.  I like the flat style steel type ones!! 

 

Be interested to know what makes of socket the sparkies here recommend??

[Steptoe]

Flat plate sockets usually require a deeper than normal back box,

Have you mentioned this to your electrician at first fix stage,? 

 

[ProDave]

... and lets hope your plasterer had got the wall behind the socket REALLY flat, otherwise you will have issues and they can end up looking rubbish.
 

[Onoff]

Nice, thick, tile effect wallpaper in the kitchen works to iron out any wall imperfections with flat plate stuff.....don't ask how I know! 

[Onoff]

4 hours ago, JanetE said:

.

 

When the plasterers have finally finished (they haven't arrived yet, 3 weeks late so far) we shall need to buy our sockets and switches.  I like the flat style steel type ones!! 

 

Be interested to know what makes of socket the sparkies here recommend??

 

Click stuff is very nice:

 

http://www.ukelectricalsupplies.com/Click-scolmore.htm

 

I've used a fair bit of Varilight stuff in the past. Quite taken with the idea of their "wall paperable" ones. might in fact end up looking tacky!

 

Knightsbridge, MK Edge.....

 

Good free catalogue here:

 

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/?ad_position=1t1&source=adwords-tlc&ad_id=109086895277&placement=&kw=tlc&network=g&matchtype=e&test=finalurl&gclid=CP7z96rAxs8CFRW3Gwod9rQKxg

 

[PeterW]

9 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

With a ring the load is in effect shared by the two legs going back to the cu. Think what happens when say one leg goes open circuit - all the load could be on one possibly now undersize cable leg. Every socket might still work until something melts.....or worse! Thinking about high load areas like the kitchen you might be better running a 32A radial (or two) in 4mm. It might serve to run 20A radial to low load areas like bedrooms for example. Testing is easier on radials too. Be aware some socket makes don't like accepting 4mm cables (tbh some struggle with 3x 2.5mm).

 

So is it possible to run a 4mm to a point and then do a star of 2.5mm to the sockets ..?? Or is that more hassle ..?

[Onoff]

4 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

So is it possible to run a 4mm to a point and then do a star of 2.5mm to the sockets ..?? Or is that more hassle ..?

 

It's a little more complicated than that and there are "rules" in 7671.....for instance:

 

.....if spurring off from a socket on a 4mm² radial to more than one socket the spur wiring has to be in 4mm²

.....if you've a 4mm radial run you can take an unfused spur off of it in 2.5mm² but only to ONE single or double socket

.....etc

 

Just Google "appendix 15 bs7671 ring final circuits" and "appendix 15 bs7671 radial final circuits"  and look at Images or buy a copy for about £65! 

 

There's even lollipop circuits to say utilise an old cooker point and then do a ring from that.

 

Don't forget though that if you deviate from the regs even though they're not legislation you could could be on a loser if it goes wrong. 

[Fallingditch]

18 hours ago, JanetE said:

Be interested to know what makes of socket the sparkies here recommend??

 

Firstly, I am not a sparky, but I have been looking (and looking) at sockets ...

 

The question arose because I will be putting six double sockets at high level in a colured glass spashback above a kitchen worktop, to which the eye will naturally be drawn ... and I really dont want the eye to focus on white plastic switched sockets when we will be spending thousands on splashbacks, worktops and kitchen units!

 

So it seems from the above I can lose the switches. Next is colour and style. Suppliers mentioned above do a wide range of styles (brass, gold, wood effect, stainless steel etc etc.). But I want to go for minimalist, so plan to use an anthracite colour (Gira make a very expensive one which looks like this). Everywhere else in the house I will use bog standard white ones (for example these Hager which are one sixth the price of the anthracite ones!)

[Trw144]

Niko also do an anthracite which is what I am using as I wanted switches and sockets to match..