Ed Davies Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: I am a great lover of solar thermal and spent many many hours and days trying to devise a system to provide all the heat for a modern house Your post covers two separate issues: 1) interseasonal (or nearly so) storage for space heating and 2) use of solar thermal for DHW pre-heat. Only the second is on topic for this thread so I'll address that. 14 minutes ago, scottishjohn said: there are very few days ALL YEAR ROUND when you cannot get 30c-40c+ if pump speed is controlled correctly for panel area Exactly. That's ideal for pre-heating DHW to then be topped up to the temperature it'll actually be used at by a SunAmp or whatever so a large buffer tank is not required, just one to cover a day or two's usage which won't be much different from a normal domestic DHW tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ed Davies said: Exactly. That's ideal for pre-heating DHW to then be topped up to the temperature it'll actually be used at by a SunAmp or whatever so a large buffer tank is not required, just one to cover a day or two's usage which won't be much different from a normal domestic DHW tank. of course that depends how may panels or tubes - but my 40 tube system on a sunny day would take my 300 litre tank form 30c at first light up to 70-80c by lunch time -- so i would not underestimate the size of tank you need and why not let it heat your UFH , dhw or sunamp if it has the output any way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Davies Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 @scottishjohn, absolutely. Using solar thermal for DHW pre-heat and also for space heating is my plan but not using the same tank for the two jobs. However, this thread is about using an ASHP with a Sunamp - my post you were originally responding to was about using the ASHP to preheat the water going into the Sunamp. I just mentioned my intention to use solar thermal in a similar way. Let's not derail the main discussion - start a separate one if you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Ed Davies said: @scottishjohn, absolutely. Using solar thermal for DHW pre-heat and also for space heating is my plan but not using the same tank for the two jobs. However, this thread is about using an ASHP with a Sunamp - my post you were originally responding to was about using the ASHP to preheat the water going into the Sunamp. I just mentioned my intention to use solar thermal in a similar way. Let's not derail the main discussion - start a separate one if you want to. no problem will eave it as is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 On 13/09/2019 at 15:07, Jeremy Harris said: if doing it again I'd leave out the buffer, flow switch, heat exchanger etc I installed, as it just over-complicates things for the sake of saving a few pounds a year on the hot water bill (saves less than a tenner a year I reckon). So you’d got fully Sunamp? How would you deal with UFH and cooling? I assume you’d retain the ASHP and feed it directly into the UFH. Thanks for all the contributions to this and other Sunamp threads. It’s crunch time for me, I’m starting first fix in the New Year, so need to finalise my space heating and hot water design. I’m come to the conclusion that one large ( suitably sized) Sunamp, charged using solar PV and off peak grid electricity is the way to go for DHW. Still not sure about Space heating! In my case I’ve fitted hundreds of metres of pipe in the slab. Do I really need the cost of an ASHP and unventilated hot water store? Maybe the Willis heater is the way to go and in summer when it’s too hot, just open the windows and purge the hot air! What keeps you awake at night? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russdl Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 9 hours ago, Triassic said: What keeps you awake at night? All the above, and much more. Thats our plan, Sunamp, PV, offpeak elec and Willis heaters... and firmly crossed fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Russdl said: Thats our plan, Sunamp, PV, offpeak elec and Willis heaters.. Has anyone got a photo, sketch, layout plan for such a set up? I only ask as I find it easier to understand rather than a written description! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russdl Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Triassic said: Has anyone got a photo, sketch, layout plan for such a set up? Sorry, not me, not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Triassic said: Has anyone got a photo, sketch, layout plan for such a set up? I only ask as I find it easier to understand rather than a written description! I'll PM you a couple when I get 5 mins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: I'll PM you a couple when I get 5 mins And me pls @Nickfromwales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) I think there are a few of us on here @Nickfromwales who are looking at the Willis solution so why not create a new topic? I've contacted a few plumbers locally who either haven't responded or who are telling me this isn't possible (what do clients know anyway?). So having a dummies guide to Willis Heating for UFH would make a good sticky on BH! EDIT: Looks like a similar request in UFH already! Shall e continued this Willis Heating there? Edited November 20, 2019 by oranjeboom added willis linky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Ok, everybody remain calm...... I’ll start a new thread and go from there. ? Cup running over at the mo so bear with me ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 On 06/10/2019 at 04:25, Dan Feist said: I've been talking to Sunamp about use of ASHP with their units. While they talk about the Daikin HT heat pumps in some of their literature Sunamp sold a guy I work with a similar set up. He has a 16kw Daikin Altherma HT single phase ASHP. It's a split system and he also uses a Sunamp for heating (standard radiators so fairly high temperature). It was working fine until they started using the heating (fairly recently) but now the ASHP stops working every day. The installer told him to switch the ASHP off and on which he did and it started working ok but seems to stop regularly, then he discovered that it seems to reset itself when he just turns the Sunamp off and on so he is thinking that it's something to do with that and he's having to do that daily at present. The MCS installer is supposed to be coming out to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 16 hours ago, oranjeboom said: I've contacted a few plumbers locally who either haven't responded or who are telling me this isn't possible (what do clients know anyway?). Point them at this https://www.heatraesadia.com/products/heating-and-ventilation/electric-flow-boilers/amptec Afaict it's a Willis heater in a fancy box with a shiny name on the outside. The installation instructions has some example schematics that may (or may not) be a useful starting point for questions here too. It specifically gives UFH as one use case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted November 21, 2019 Author Share Posted November 21, 2019 3 hours ago, joth said: Afaict it's a Willis heater in a fancy box with a shiny name on the outside. Bit of a price difference though! But yeah, an average plumber may have more interest in fitting this than a willis heater which just draws a blank face when I mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) Yes i got one of them, had it for years for another job -- could be used in new house and then see if i really need an ashp ,assuming by that time battry storage has dropped in price -loads of space fro solar pv Edited November 21, 2019 by scottishjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 hours ago, joth said: Point them at this https://www.heatraesadia.com/products/heating-and-ventilation/electric-flow-boilers/amptec Afaict it's a Willis heater in a fancy box with a shiny name on the outside. The installation instructions has some example schematics that may (or may not) be a useful starting point for questions here too. It specifically gives UFH as one use case. yep ... and the U401 which is their UFH version is a cool £499... A 3Kw Willis is ... £49.99? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted November 21, 2019 Author Share Posted November 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, PeterW said: yep ... and the U401 which is their UFH version is a cool £499... A 3Kw Willis is ... £49.99? It's a difficult choice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, oranjeboom said: It's a difficult choice.... even cheaper https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Willis-Jacket-Complete-External-Immersion-Heater-Prewired-fully-assembled-/202416631247 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 6 hours ago, joth said: Point them at this https://www.heatraesadia.com/products/heating-and-ventilation/electric-flow-boilers/amptec Afaict it's a Willis heater in a fancy box with a shiny name on the outside. The installation instructions has some example schematics that may (or may not) be a useful starting point for questions here too. It specifically gives UFH as one use case. I fitted one of those. It is made to "look" like a normal boiler. It has some relays and controls and turns on the heaters (10KW in the case of the one I fitted) when it gets a "call for heat" and senses the water is flowing (pump on) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oranjeboom Posted November 24, 2019 Author Share Posted November 24, 2019 On 21/11/2019 at 10:02, PeterW said: yep ... and the U401 which is their UFH version is a cool £499... A 3Kw Willis is ... £49.99? wowser: https://www.advanceappliances.co.uk/product/175-willis-heater-1kw-for-secondary-return/ think they sell many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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