Megabad for kitchens

[bassanclan]

I am a great fan of megabad.de or reuters.de and the like for bathroom fixtures etc.

Does anyone know of an equivalent German site for kitchen units, or will the shipping costs prove too excessive?

[volcane]

We are planning on installing a Leicht kitchen (German manufactured) ordered through a local dealer. 

I'm sure that there must be a German based dealer who could process the same order? I'm not sure if there would be much saving, a local dealer does provide a service.                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

[Nickfromwales]

I'm of the opinion that the sooner you can cut a showroom out of the picture the better. That is of course because I can design and fit it without assistance, but you may not be able to do the same. 

At that point you NEED the designer that the showroom provides so it's then down to putting a value on that service and negotiating as good a price as possible. 

Never accept the first quote, leave without purchasing and let them chase you with the best deal. . 

I do that with Howdens, and it's a few days max before they're on the phone chasing the sale......

 

[Barney12]

Just on that subject...........

 

The good lady wife and I visited a high end German kitchen showroom in Exeter recently and they made it quite clear that they wouldn't provide the full plan on paper until you paid a deposit. Up until that point you have to view it on the screen in their showroom!

 

We wont be going back!

 

P.S. They told me that I needed a £35k budget for our 5mx5m kitchen area.

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by Barney12

[volcane]

What brand? We were pleasantly surprised with our initial quote and asked for the utility room to be included.

[Barney12]

1 minute ago, volcane said:

What brand? We were pleasantly surprised with our initial quote and asked for the utility room to be included.

 

Alno

[worldwidewebs]

33 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

Just on that subject...........

 

The good lady wife and I visited a high end German kitchen showroom in Exeter recently and they made it quite clear that they wouldn't provide the full plan on paper until you paid a deposit. Up until that point you have to view it on the screen in their showroom!

 

We wont be going back!

 

P.S. They told me that I needed a £35k budget for our 5mx5m kitchen area.

 

 

That's true of most of the good ones. They spend a few hours putting a design together (maybe they're they best kitchen designer in the world) and then you go and hawk it around to get the best price. Our guy was exactly the same (and part of the reason he doesn't bother with most of the high street names) but he has a superb eye for detail. His value add is that he's helping us design the whole space, not just the layout of a few cupboards. He's even helping us design the one-off staircase we're going to have made for us

 

Budget wise I know we are spending more than I wanted/thought but it's less than that and probably a similar size

 

Take a look at https://www.facebook.com/thecheshirekitchencompany/ for inspiration

[Grosey]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

I'm of the opinion that the sooner you can cut a showroom out of the picture the better. That is of course because I can design and fit it without assistance, but you may not be able to do the same. 

At that point you NEED the designer that the showroom provides so it's then down to putting a value on that service and negotiating as good a price as possible. 

Never accept the first quote, leave without purchasing and let them chase you with the best deal. . 

I do that with Howdens, and it's a few days max before they're on the phone chasing the sale......

 

 

 

So so where do you purchase a kitchen other than a kitchen showroom? I'd be interested in buying direct from a supplier if possible?

[Nickfromwales]

I didn't say don't go to one, more USE one . 

See the goodies, ask who makes it and what the names / styles are called and get them around to give you some ideas. 

Push your luck and get them working for you. 

Source the stuff directly if you can or at least ring around other suppliers for equivalent supply only prices. 

A lot of the high end kitchens are sold on to white van guys for fitting, so think twice about using their fitters / recommends fitters unless you can go see some happy customers. Last £30k kitchen I saw from Magnet was fitted horrifically with the icing on the cake being the gas hob fitted by a non gas registered fitter ?. I had to condem it and have my mate come around and isolate the gas supply immediately. 

Ask a LOT of questions and assume nothing. Any detail you don't cover will be your fault if its missed / overlooked / assumed otherwise. 

 

[ryder72]

Bassanclan - AFAIK there isnt a megabad equivalent for kitchens. German manufacturers ship kitchens direct to the country of sale, so unless a German dealer can arrange shipping (highly unlikely) direct to the UK, its a non starter. Transport is handled through specialist furniture transporters so bulk palletised transport wont get you anywhere. Moreover assembled kitchen furniture is volume transport so you are unlikely to get a favourable transport price.

 

Finally, the price differential between UK and German on kitchens is very small, almost only reflecting the transport cost so you are better off buying locally.

 

Nick - Sorry mate but I have to disagree with your approach. Its highly unethical to 'use' anyone. How do you feel when you spend many hours of your time putting together advise and quotes for customers in good faith only to find you have been used. Many kitchen retailers including us have smartened up to this and now no longer 'give' their work away. Most of the good independents run honest businesses and provide good advise and design. Abuse the goodwill and its quickly lost as I am sure you appreciate. Unfortunately it is the sheds who are masters of smoke and mirror that has brought the whole industry down by taken a sales driven approach to kitchens and made idiots believe that there is 50-70% discounts to be had. Do you really believe that they employ 'designers' or a bunch of cheeky salespeople who throw boxes on walls and deceive customers? So thinking that you could go to a shed and pick someones brain for design is highly dubious. There isnt much to pick unfortunately. A good designer will always work for an independent and a good independent will be stupid to let a good good designer go.

 

[Vijay]

Just one thought about buying kitchens abroad, what about aftersales with wrong/missing or damaged items which always seams to happen with kitchens?

[ragg987]

We ended up using a local UK kitchen supplier who provides German kitchens from these guys. Much better than the DIY sheds.

https://www.haecker-kuechen.de/en/

 

There are a number of UK chains and independants that stock them. e.g. Grant and Stone have branded them Kuche.

 

Not yet installed so jury is out, but look good, solid and good pricing - come fully assembled and glued so prices a bit higher than IKEA if you are paying your builder to assemble them.

[bassanclan]

I found a company via ebay which seems to import the kitchens from Germany, but I'm getting a few local quotes first to see if it is worth while.

[ryder72]

Unless they are an established company in the UK, I would recommend you stay clear. A whole kitchen with say 15 units could be a collection of 25-30 different packages of varying shapes and sizes. Damages happen. Mistakes happen. I am not sure how a company can provide an acceptable level of service over ebay.

[joe90]

I once fitted a kitchen that was supplied by the customer and lots of bits were wrong and the company that supplied it wanted the wrong boxes sent back at the customers cost and told replacements would take three weeks. I always used Howdens ( before I retired) as their customer service was excellent and even damaged goods were replaced with no question.

[Fallingditch]

I am a big fan of German (Austrian) electrical and meachanical components.

 

It seems like a crucial component of any kitchen are the drawer runners, and door and cupboard hinges. The market is dominated by Blum, Grass and Hettich (who have high priced and low priced ranges as well). Kessebohmer do a lot of the fancy pullout fittings etc.  

 

Additionally, the market for higher quality panel materials are also dominated by German companies: Egger and Kronospan. (I know there will be others!)

 

But having done a lot of research, I have found two UK companies who manufacture and assemble kitchens to customers plans using the above German components, and who deliver to sire pre-assembled ready for the customer to install, but who operate at a lower price point. They are: DIYKitchens near Pontefract, and LarkandLarks in Solihull. Many of their customers give them very good feedback.

 

I have not bought from them yet - interested to see if others have.

 

I do understand that if you go to a full service Kitchen Supplier and get them to do the entire job, the quality will be higher than what an amateur self builder can achieve, and there will be fewer problems. But I think the cost premium for that end-to-end service can sometimes exceed how much self-builders want to spend.

[ryder72]

I agree with you to a point. But thats only part of the picture.

 

German kitchen manufacturers have a very high level of automation and a huge amount of investment in their factories allowing them to make products more efficiently and manufacturing at a level of volume which no British manufacturer apart from Howdens is able to achieve. Moreover, like a lot of other German industries, the family owned, invest for the long term rather than make a quick buck attitude means most German manufacturers will make a better thought out product that British manufacturers.

 

This scale of production given tremendous buying power which in term allows more investment in manufacturing, product development etc ultimately resulting in a situation where the attention to detail/quality/flexibility package becomes a hard one to ignore.

 

As a retailer of German and British kitchens, I would love to be able to stand behind a British kitchen with the same level of confidence as a German one and say - this is a very good value for money offering you are getting. Sadly, I honestly dont feel I can say it. We deal with a fairly high end British manufacturer and while they do some interesting and unique things, the attention to detail is not just lacking, but at times shocking.

 

 

[Bitpipe]

On 9/12/2016 at 17:53, ragg987 said:

We ended up using a local UK kitchen supplier who provides German kitchens from these guys. Much better than the DIY sheds.

https://www.haecker-kuechen.de/en/

 

There are a number of UK chains and independants that stock them. e.g. Grant and Stone have branded them Kuche.

 

Not yet installed so jury is out, but look good, solid and good pricing - come fully assembled and glued so prices a bit higher than IKEA if you are paying your builder to assemble them.

We have a Hacker kitchen - very pleased with it, super solid and well made. We bought ours from a firm that specialise in stone worktops and this is the only kitchen they do - they were a good £3/4k cheaper than the local independent show room who also stock them 

[ryder72]

Bitpipe - I suppose you are in the Aylesbury area then?

[Barney12]

17 hours ago, ryder72 said:

 

As a retailer of German and British kitchens, I would love to be able to stand behind a British kitchen with the same level of confidence as a German one and say - this is a very good value for money offering you are getting. Sadly, I honestly dont feel I can say it. We deal with a fairly high end British manufacturer and while they do some interesting and unique things, the attention to detail is not just lacking, but at times shocking.

 

 

 

So who would you put in your top 3 of German kitchen manufacturers?

 

The vast array of choice is bewildering! 

 

[ryder72]

That is a difficult question. You have the budget/white label end of the market, mid price and premium end and the pricing points in Britain are different to those in Germany. There is a fair bit of smoke and mirrors in market positioning here

[Barney12]

3 minutes ago, ryder72 said:

That is a difficult question. You have the budget/white label end of the market, mid price and premium end and the pricing points in Britain are different to those in Germany. There is a fair bit of smoke and mirrors in market positioning here

 

You are not wrong! 

 

I sometimes think it would be easier if you simply paid someone for design and impartial advice who had no vested interest in selling you one of their kitchens!

Edited October 9, 2016 by Barney12

[ryder72]

I agree. And I find it astonishing that people would pay £2000 to an architect to draw up a £60k extension but wont pay a penny for a kitchen designer to design a kitchen worth half that money.

 

 

[Barney12]

4 minutes ago, ryder72 said:

I agree. And I find it astonishing that people would pay £2000 to an architect to draw up a £60k extension but wont pay a penny for a kitchen designer to design a kitchen worth half that money.

 

 

 

When I posed this question to a kitchen designer recently who is the wife of a friend (she works for the company that used to supply Next's kitchens before they pulled away from the market. The name escapes me) she suggested it would be very hard to do as everyone has a slightly different set of components in their kitchen range.

 

Its also frustrating (when you have a wife like mine who has absolutely no vision for what something might look like when finished) when the designer says "right tell me the door and worktop you've chosen and ill do a design".

[ryder72]

I think you are looking at Nobilia that did Next's kitchens.

 

So there are two points here- 

Within German suppliers the differences between entry to midrange are better specification and more choice of finishes and detailing but not that much in choice of cabinetry. Between mid and top end its more options on design features and flexiblity and to an extent on types of units available. So if you had a design done indicating what sort of budget you had, a good designer would design it to that sort of budget. You should be able to take a design you have paid for to another designer and get 95% of it without compromise.

 

If you take that to an English manufacturer, you will definitely have less choice of units but I reckon still 80% is doable.

 

Good kitchen design has nothing to do with the door and worktop. This is where a mood board or an album on Pinterest is worth its weight in gold to a designer. Gathering images and ideas inevitably unveils a pattern and its for the designer to use this information to pull together a design. A good designer will spot the kind of finishes and styles that appeal to a client and should be able to nail is to the extent of 90% at the first attempt.

 

People somehow feel that the rubbish that sheds and builders merchants come up with is design. It honestly isnt. Its an arrangement of boxes in 15 minutes in a room with no thought to ergonomics or aesthetics with a view to a sale offering 80% discounts. I can assure you that a good designer will easily spend a day and a half to 3 days on a good design.