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Everything posted by JohnMo
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Condensation in the unit
JohnMo replied to Coanda's topic in Mechanical Ventilation with Heat Recovery (MVHR)
Depends did you get a standard or enthalpy heat exchanger. The enthalpy ones recycle the moisture back into the incoming air. So no condensation will accumulate. -
UFH balancing and understanding how it works
JohnMo replied to peredelkin's topic in Underfloor Heating
Just had a look at them, would not bother waiting if you want to buy. Basic benefits are spring action closing mechanism, and don't need to be calibrated. Calibration occurs during the first 40 mins of being powered up for the first time, so no real advantage after that. -
UFH balancing and understanding how it works
JohnMo replied to peredelkin's topic in Underfloor Heating
WC and a normal manifold mixer is a waste of time, been there spent a year recording and messing with things. The mixer works against you all the time. The only way to get a mixer to work with WC is via an electric mixer. Salus self balancing actuators are pretty good, I have my UFH as a single zone but use the actuators on a few loops. I am also using an electronic mixer, set to 28 deg. The heat pump modulates on/off on low load. So the temp going to the mixer also varies. When the flow temp goes below 28 deg, you notice the Salus actuator starts to open and increase the flow to that loop, once the heat pump starts again, it closes in the flow, back to where you expect it to be. It's basically doing a good job of evening out the energy flowing into the floor by varying dT. To convert to open loop you can do it two ways 1. Set your thermostat to say 24, so loops stay open - good first step while you balance system 2. Remove all actuators and fit manual valves 3. Install a jumper on wiring centre instead of thermostat. -
Radiator sizing: to oversize or not?
JohnMo replied to ectoplasmosis's topic in Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHP)
That will get two answers, no zoning or zoning. But really depends on how you will use the system. WC requires long run times you could just balance the system on a single zone, keep it simple. Out all day house empty you may be cheaper flowing a slightly higher temperature for a shorter time period and rely on trv's to modulate the room. temperature. I would, based on my experience of starting complex and moving to more simple, start as simple as you can, zero controls. We are currently running an electric mixer valve on our UFH set to 28 degs, house temp has varied around 0.5 degs in the last couple of weeks with outside temp swings from +10 to -2. Heat pump just does it's own thing with very little load on it and no external inputs. Have a thermostat but it just increases the mixer valve set point to 32 degrees, if the house temp drops below 20. Currently sitting at 20.5. -
Lessons learned from last ready - getting ready for cold snap
JohnMo replied to Conor's topic in Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHP)
So the yield is just the figure for what the heat pump is gaining and not the total, for energy given out. So a CoP of one, would be a yield of zero? -
Hardcore, sand, DPM, concrete. You could add insulation between the DPM and concrete. Or heavy 3x2 slabs on a cement mix. Lits of different ways really. This what I did
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I got these from Amazon Roshield External Tamper Proof Rodent Boxes & Wax Bait Rat Killer. Have got though 6kg of bait so far. So some hungry mice about. But the mice seem to be disappearing, we were getting over run by them, prior to this.
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It is also a straight line So I have added 2 degs to B10. Moved from 7 to 9 degs. My current curve is B10 9.0 B12 8 B14 (-)16 Hea 33.5 So starts at +8 degs and down to -8 OAT. At +8 and above flow temp is 33.5 degs and at -8 it's at 42.5 deg flow temp. A kink would be better or even an additional set point at zero so it was two flat or the software made a nice curve.
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Was down to -1 last night the air very wet, house temp stayed pretty constant with the 28 deg flow temp, but summer house dropped 2 degs, so have added a couple of degrees to the end of the WC curve to compensate. Interesting there was only one defrost cycle all night. Think the ASHP is able to modulate down much further with the continuous drip feeding of heat into the house, so doing very little work.
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In Scotland the joiners do the boarding out and then it's just taped at the joints, not skimmed. Ames taper does the taping and filling at the joints.
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I also, bedroom window open 24 hrs 365 days per year, no heating in bedrooms. With MVHR, now window open for about 4 weeks in height of summer only. Really don't feel the need at any other time. When we talk about air quality its indoor air quality, in a city or in the country indoor air quality can be good or or bad, it really depends on the ventilation system. Many posts on here talk about mould, condensation, high CO2 in bedrooms etc. MVHR is that magic bullet that fixes those issues.
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DIY retrofit MVHR design for beginners
JohnMo replied to Ommm's topic in Mechanical Ventilation with Heat Recovery (MVHR)
Probably - not -
Why would you want a thermostat with 0.5 deg switching hysterisis with UFH, you will end up with room temp swings of about 2 degs. Get something that has a switching hysterisis of 0.1 for way more stable temperatures. Or set your system so the thermostat effectively isn't needed except for extreme temperature swings - solar gain ect.
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Any area of the world, in summer, you exclude solar gain during the day, close curtains and blinds, as soon as it warmer inside than out, you purge, open windows at either side of the house to promote airflow. You do this with it with MVHR. A2A heat pump can be good for cooling. You don't need dogs that shouldn't exist in the first place, a sausage and nearly all dogs are your best friend. If someone wants in to your house they aren't going to squeeze through a small gap, plenty of other ways in. A couple of outside lights on a PIRs is more than enough deterrent. If it's not, they are coming in anyway.
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LG Therma V mono block Air Source Heat Pump
JohnMo replied to ProDave's topic in Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHP)
Could be sensor or leak? Can you see the refrigerant side running parameters, check to see what the pressure is, if you are using lots of power, but getting no heat it could be refrigeration leak? Mine a different make, but should be similar. Design pressure (high/low) heat pump mode bar 42,8/1,3 If you can't see the pressure, you may be able to see the temperature at the heat exchanger or at the compressor. -
LG Therma V mono block Air Source Heat Pump
JohnMo replied to ProDave's topic in Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHP)
I had what looked to be similar a week or so ago. I had let the floor get very cold. Target flow temp was about 35, it wasn't moving past 30. I left it to run for hours and the temp slowly crept up. My problem the floor was just cold and the water flow heat was just being absorbed by the floor, the heat pump just looked at dT and was therefore happy. As the dT started to fall it added temperature but not until then. Check the flow and return temperature and monitor dT, see what it's actually doing. -
I wound start by Turning off the new UFH loops and new radiators, so you start from there you were prior to the modification. Do things methodically. 1. Switch off the upstairs radiators via thermostat and same for UFH. 2. Switch one system on via thermostat, does the ASHP startup? 3. Are you getting the correct temps yes or no. 4. Switch off everything again 5. Repeat same for other system 6. Try both systems what happens. 7. Bring on the new parts of the system one at a time, what happens? Post reply with system photos
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Think really until we have a suitably educated work force, we are stuffed. Really need some mechanism to make said training mandatory and more importantly meaningful. Example - A builder recently bought our digger and was discussing the house, said he could never live in an airtight house, and would never build one, because they just go mouldy and are really unhealthy to live in, and wasn't sure why I bothered. Any discussion was straight over his head, as he was convinced otherwise. Long way to go I am afraid
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LG Therma V mono block Air Source Heat Pump
JohnMo replied to ProDave's topic in Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHP)
Switch off at mains and that should reset the logic? -
Our 15mm goes under two sheds, it is insulated and then placed inside some gutter downpipe, the exposed bits are foil tape wrapped and painted, to keep the bug***s out. Plus we have bait boxes dotted about.
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My piping runs are (6kW ASHP) bit of a mixed bag. First 4m is 28mm copper (to stop mice eating it and for valves etc), I go into a shed where I tee off, in 15mm for approx 6m in Hep2O to garden room (2x UFH 50m loops, no pump or mixer). The main run is converted to 28mm Hep2O 5m in a shed, then 4m underground, when I get to the house I convert back to 28mm copper (2m) up to 3 way valve in house. From 3 way valve it is copper 22mm to UFH (1m) and 22mm Hep2O to cylinder (8 to 10m away). Did all the pressure loss calcs all good, but required a return pump on the cylinder loop. Do pressure loss calc, use what material suits your application. One or two sharp bend is worse than many metre of slightly to small a pipe with shallow bends.
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Energy usage comparison based on real energy consumption. During the last 48hrs no other heating sources have been used just the heat pump. Garden room was averaging around 7kWh per day for heating, using direct electric heating. This has reduced to zero for the keeping warm (via direct heating), when in use I will still use direct heating for now. Last 48hrs has averaged 18kWh a day (between 3 and 8 degrees, wet and overcast), for house heating at a continuous 20.5, garden room heating was at 14-15 degrees and providing all DHW. Almost all energy is coming from cheap rate (15.16p per kWh), via E7 overnight and a battery in the daytime. Calculated heat loads at an average 5 degrees OAT House 56kWh day (found similar gas usage last year) Garden room 7kWh (based on previous direct electric consumption) DHW 7 kWh - (based on previous usage patterns) total 70kWh heating demand, electricity consumed by heat pump is 18kWh, overall CoP of 3.88. Gas price 6.489p assuming 100% efficiency 70x0.06489 would be £4.54 per day, would cost more if less efficient E7 Electric with battery 18 x 0.1516 is £2.73. 40% cost saving.
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Since the last post I have added a few more Salus self balancing actuators, they seem to do a good job of leveling out the energy going into the floor. The heat pump has settled down to a very rhythmic pattern of run - stop, the temperature going into the UFH although set for 28, goes 28 when heat pump is on and reduces down to 25 when heat pump off. The Salus actuator has a similar pattern of going fully open at 25 and then controlling dT at 28 and bringing the flows rates down again. Here is plot of the hall temperature, which shows really stable temperatures, the slight dip in temperature between 8 and 9am is 2 hours after DHW heating started, the hall temp drops 0.1 degs, then based on yesterday's data, recovers over the next couple of hours. So far the high flow temp setting (up to 36 deg based on WC curve) hasn't kicked in, OAT, has varied between 3 and 8 degs. Have -1 forecast for tonight so will see how or if things change.
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Just put in 2 or 3 125 to 150mm round flush fit led on the ceiling, job done. 5 x 1.5m is more like a small corridor, you will get plenty of light bouncing if the walls to make it bright.
