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Everything posted by JohnMo
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After the existing filter last thing in the return loop on its way to heat pump. Altecnic 1” Filter Ball Valve - 124-6005 CST or Inta Full Bore Ball Valve with Filter Cartridge - 28mm Comp.
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Heat pumps. Any negative points about 3 phase?
JohnMo replied to saveasteading's topic in Underfloor Heating
You building must be massive to need that size heat pump, as effectively a new build? 5-600m²? -
Full house renovation and retrofit guidance
JohnMo replied to fisnik's topic in House Extensions & Conservatories
If you are going for heat pump grant, photograph and record every insulation and airtightness improvement you make. Many will ignore these improvements otherwise. Get an official air test at the end of works. If you are doing UFH add at least 150mm of insulation (PIR) under and screed above or don't bother with UFH. A retrofit I would just do radiators, heat pump or PDHW boiler setup running Weather Compensation and/or room compensation. The boiler set up in PDHW will give almost instantaneously and endlessly available hot water. Others on here, have similar age building and with upgrading some insulation aspects run radiators at 35, with boiler or heat pump. -
If it's all new nothing much, enough to get air out. Circulation pump on for an hour, cleaner filter and strainer
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Again check your install instructions - mine explicitly stated a strainer must be installed and you’ve provided one. It also says if you have magnetic filter they also had to be installed
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True, but do any modern ASHPs say glycol is the only option?
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Best ratio - is no glycol at all - why are you adding. It just degrades system performance. If you really want freeze protection for warranty, buy two anti freeze valves. But ones that respond to water temperatures not outside temperature. The flexible hose by the expansion vessel, should tee into the cold water main and act as filling loop. But you UFH loops will need filling and air got out of the system - you would use a hose on the UFH manifold for that, one loop at a time. Not seeing many useful auto bleed points
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Full house renovation and retrofit guidance
JohnMo replied to fisnik's topic in House Extensions & Conservatories
Just a point worth thinking about. Heat pumps the SCoP (annual measure of electricity in, to heating energy out) is directly proportional to flow temp. For a given house heat loss, a heat pump designed around a max flow of 55 degs compared to 35 degs will cost 75% more to run (SCoP are approx 3.85 and 5.10). So a low design temp will cost less than gas. But sizing the heat pump correctly is really important. As you can see, insulation isn't the important thing when installing a heat pump, correct design is. Gas or heat pump insulation and air tightness reduces the heat loss only - it doesn't make one better than the other. -
Energy counter 1 is showing 1.88 / 0.3 that is a CoP of 6.26, but it's reported as 6.8? Or is it showing an average over a time period and reporting that as the CoP?
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Hoping - well happy for NE Scotland. Yep, need a couple of nice cold days to finish, got a couple coming later this week
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He doesn't attempt, they film a team doing it and does a little bit of hands on. It was interesting but...
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Installing parquet over overfit type UFH boards
JohnMo replied to sb1202's topic in Underfloor Heating
We have similar floor buildup in our summer house, not parquet but is and laminate flooring, the performance is pathetic even at 40 degs. In the end I decommissioned it. You need the pipes in close contact with something that fully envelopes the pipe so you have zero air gaps. So a screed or self levelling compound will improve things. Your thickness needs to thick enough to stop cracking from small movements. So will depend on make and exact product you use. I would looked to a self levelling but flexible compound. -
Full house renovation and retrofit guidance
JohnMo replied to fisnik's topic in House Extensions & Conservatories
If you can only afford to do the extension why are planning gutting the house as well? Cut your cloth according to budget. I would have an air test done and ask the guy to spend a hour going around the house finding and identifying air leaks first. Then make a plan of action to fix. Understand your current insulation and see how to upgrade cost effectively. Lofts are easy to upgrade, floor? (New floor or insulation to original), walls? (Internal or external) You plans have zero details on build up of walls, roof, flour etc, so are just a pretty picture. To get what you want the builder needs to quote based on exact specs, hoping for the best isn't going to get what you need. If you aren't airtight don't bother with MVHR, a well designed MEV or dMEV system will be more appropriate. And cost many thousands less. I would step back and get everything planned and realistic to your budget. -
Interesting couple of days with the new heat pump.
JohnMo replied to MikeSharp01's topic in Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHP)
I have done all sorts of modes of heating, including just heating during E7 period, Cosy periods etc, and by far cheapest (with battery and ASHP) is just letting the heat pump run on WC. A 5 degree day today and it's ticking away at a CoP of 5.78 so far today. Any sort of batch charging, can drop CoP to the mid 3s -
Work out your heat loss at your design outside temp, then get a heat pump that will modulate to half that or less. Then it should just tick away all day. If you have a secondary heat source like a wood stove, it will cut any peaks in demand, so size it tight to the calculation heat load or even slightly smaller. But then you need to consider DHW, I just do immersion then heat pump sizing doesn't matter. Closer pipe spacing decrease flow rate for a given heat demand, but only by a little, but generally not by as much as people make out when your house is already a low heat demand.
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Mainly because it was a 10kW unit software limited and badged to 6kW, so generally min output was close to 4kW.
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You can buy materials from anywhere, just get a VAT receipt, places like B&Q (can be way cheaper for some things that trade outlets), you have to ask for a VAT receipt. For best prices just shop around, trade account doesn't mean best prices, you can be royally ripped off. You can also get cash accounts with companies if you want, basically they have all your details you can haggle prices as they can see your buying history etc. Some jobs it's just easier to leave contractors to quote for the job, if you find the quote acceptable, they get the job, leave them to source and do the job, then invoice less VAT. That's life, get on and don't over think it.
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What's wrong with a SIP extension (self build)?
JohnMo replied to Apache's topic in Structural Insulated Panels (SIPs)
For our build I considered speed of build first, then got stupid quotes. Looked at SIPs and there was quite a bit of key stuff by others, steel being one plus to get to the values I want, plenty of additional insulation was needed. In the end I went Durisol ICF, two of us both DIYers, built the walls of the house in 4 weeks (during end Nov to Christmas), not small either, lots of angle changes and 70m perimeter. 0.14 U value out the box, thermal bridge free, only basic hand tools needed. Build six blocks high, fill 5.5 blocks with concrete, repeat. No lintels needed they are self formed with the blocks, some rebar and concrete fill. Parge coat walls, service void and plasterboard or wet plaster direct, gives an airtight structure. External render, brick or stone slips or timber cladding are all easy to do, directly fixed to woodcrete ICF. It doesn't burn, doesn't rot. The blocks are made from end of life wooden products like pallets etc. -
https://www.epicair.co.uk/products/zehnder-circular-decorative-coanda-effect-grille-renoventil-dia-90-mm-white?srsltid=AfmBOorHC-MEWuXyI--gEQUSlx8LQK3shpT2LxaOQzhu9pieFmeKZ3ak £7 each, I have 6 in the house and they will clip on directly to 90mm duct or you can get adaptors. They an extract version as well at a similar price point. You can either adjust flow rate at the plenum with restriction plates or a zehnder do a slip into duct one for the terminal end.
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Lots of questions The basics and that's where you start from. First it's about pressure drop management, a higher pressure drop the fan in the MVHR have to work harder to give a set air flow. Second when you use a plenum and individual pipes to rooms, the strings in parallel, so you will have one single run which sets the pressure drop - it's generally the longest pipe run and the highest flow rate. This is the route you need to concentrate on and get low. Then make sure all other routes do not exceed that pressure drop. Noise comes from two sources A. Fan noise - as mentioned above B. Duct noise from air velocity. This is generally managed by looking after pressure drops. So get your data sheets, look at pressure drops for ducts, bends and terminals. Get data sheet for fan speed/pressure charts for the MVHR. Before you do that you need to understand each terminal flow rates. You can massively reduce duct length by using coanda terminals. These will throw air from one side of the room to the other following the ceiling before coming down.
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I would be doing that anyway - panel are £120 per kW plus mounts, so wouldn't you.
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Yes - not really that important l on the design stage, but very important at the 'as build' stage, make sure all assumptions are correct as well as everything else.
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Interesting couple of days with the new heat pump.
JohnMo replied to MikeSharp01's topic in Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHP)
Think you maybe over thinking stuff. A heat pump cycling is a reasonably normal thing. If it runs for 10 to 15 mins it over comes any startup losses. As long as it's not 5 mins later you have no issues. Quick restarts are down to setting startup dT correctly. Don't get bogged down, thinking it's bad in mild conditions. It isn't. -
I was happy to minimise pipe in floor and designed in loopcad. The insulation values at the time didn't get down to my levels, and even then at -9 had a design flow temp of 35 deg. Actually the highest flow temp I need doing WC is about 32. Just installed a new smaller heat pump, as previous one didn't modulate well at all (it's being reused for hot tub). The last few days the CoP has been (in order they appeared) Average 4.5 day temp CoP 5.11 Average 6.8 day temp CoP 5.68, Average 5.6 day temp CoP 5.8. Still fine tuning WC curve, so performance is improving. Even with 4 poor running days, my weekly SCoP is 4.56. in a weeks time, I expect that to closer to 5+ even with more snow on the way for NE Scotland. Heat striping - pipes are 100mm down and by the time the heat gets to the surface you cannot feel any difference in temperature. It also works acceptably well in cooling.
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Either find an installer that will play ball or just cut out the middle man and DIY the install. R290 Haier heat pump 4kW or 6kW from Wolesely are £2100 and £2300 including vat. Do a direct cylinder for DHW heat via immersion on cheap rate and a simple time switch. About £500. Connect ASHP directly to UFH and run WC. Two pipes, strainer on return (supplied with ASHP), couple flex hoses and isolation valves, job done. £200.
