MortarThePoint

Naughty to resurrect an old thread, but @Onoff and @PeterW do you still drill and countersink?

That's kind of what I was thinking too as things have gone very wrong when the screws would pull out of shear damage. What about floor stiffening to reduce bounce, that won't just be compressive will it?

What size of screw do people tend to use for this? I am running in two 5.0x90 and one 5.0x100 per noggin end. Should I be using some 6.0x100 screws? The joists are 222x47 @ 600mm centres and the noggins are 222x47 or 172x47. I'm mostly able to screw though the joist into the noggin (staggered configuration) but there are some double trusses that need skew screws.

Another useful piece of advice from the plasterer was don't plaster a ceiling until you have finished adding weight to the space above.

A plasterer asked what centres our trusses are, which are 600mm. He suggested using 4x1 counter battens (aka 'brandering', thanks @Hobbiniho) at 400mm centres screwed underneath the trusses to screw the plasterboard to. What do people make of this suggestion? It's a lot easier than noggins. It eats in to the ceiling height but only be 22mm.

Lots of the installation guides use silicone spray and I thought that was more for ease of installation. I've also heard of people using vaseline. But as Joe90 says it could make for an annual ritual.

That sounds great. If I follow you, you are cutting where I have circled below? I guess it's a trade off with making it too loose that it's not secure. Did you fit long sections of guttering (e.g. 4m)?

Was it quite a dry pack mix you used?

My main concern with plastic (PVC) guttering and downpipes is the creaking noises they make as they heat up and cool down. That made me wonder if anyone here new of was to minimise the chances of such noises? Do the creaks generally come from the gutter brackets and the downpipe clips? One thought that occurred to me is around the lengths of sections. Before I thought about creaking, I thought fitting as long sections as possible, but I now think that could make the creaking worse. You can get 5.5m downpipes long enough to do the whole vertical. Given expansion gaps are at the ends of sections, the maximum movement will be proportional to the length of the section. PVC has a thermal expansion coefficient of 50 ppm/C [1] which means as 5.5m section will expand 2.75mm per 10C temperature change -- CREAK! ☹️ If you were to make up the same distance in 4 sections then the maximum expansion would be reduced by a factor of 4 (0.7mm per 10C) and hopefully less creaking ? I can't imagine wanting to use sections of gutter less than 2m long so they would still expand 1mm per 10C. Still makes for a lot more unions though. [1] https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pipes-temperature-expansion-coefficients-d_48.html

Just spoke to the truss designer and he said that the noggins at nodes 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, and 9 aren't needed. That's good as the large blue noggin will therefore be more than what's required. I'll still fit noggins at nodes 2 and 9 as it will provide support for the plasterboard.

They aren't actually water tanks as we won't have any. They are just a form of additional loading capacity. It's a flat roof at the top because the planners wanted the ridge height reduced. An advantage of a flat roof (aka crown top) is that it divorces the depth of the house from the ridge height. The 222mm noggins at the top (shown blue in previous post) should meet the requirements of the top two 150mm noggins shouldn't they? That only leaves the noggins at the top of the vertical members (side walls). I'll ask, but I was expecting it would be OK to shift those noggins down off the nail plates which is good for the reason you mention and would provide plasterboard support.

The truss designer has incorporated noggins at each of the joining plates (circled green in above post), 150mm which is less than 75% of the top chord 222mm. Is that OK? I asked for the top chords to be increased from 197mm to 222mm and he may have forgotten to revise the noggin timber. In terms of the higher up noggins, all but a couple of gaps have 220mm vertical noggins right at the top (shown here added in blue). I might install a 150mm noggin at the lower position shown here as a plasterboard edge noggin.

Yes the wall is a 100mm load bearing and that helps a lot with the span. Like you I was confused as to why the noggins were above that and not shifted off to split the two spans. There are 4x1 bracing timbers in currently, but they will get in the way of the plasterboard so I expect to replace them with the noggins that are shown circled green here. the lowest ones are where you are suggesting purlins aren't they? The truss designer dotted water tanks all over the place for good measure. The manufacturers have given me a cheat sheet as to where I can drill, but I hope to avoid it as much as possible.

Like @pocster I'm messing about with Noggins, but mine are structural rather than for the plasterboard so I thought I'd start a different thread. We've got attic trusses and the roof designer said to put noggins in at the base of each side wall and then two noggins spaced in between that. I've circled what this ends up as below and the designer has shown some noggins 172mm aligned with the bottom of the bottom chord (222mm). Is that alignment the best choice (compared to flush with top of bottom chord or in the middle)? One run of noggins is basically along the support wall near where there look to be clips. Does it make sense to have them so close to anchors?

That does look very smart. It's mainly the brackets on the down pipes that look so good. I found these which look good, but not quite as good as where the BM downpipe sections meet:

I'd worry about it being pinched

Made in the UK apparently. Here's a video of samples: https://www.facebook.com/PVCPAINTING/videos/757936784356603/

I saw this which looks pretty good:

I do think it looks good with light coloured timber cladding, but personally I prefer something darker with brickwork.

I've costed up the guttering etc in three different types. I had a full quote for it in Aluminium which was just over £4k, of which 54% was gutters and downpipes so I am scaling the other options on that basis. [NB: 84m guttering and 51m downpipe] Aluminium: inc. 125mm gutters, 76mm downpipes - £4,080 Brett Martin Cast Iron Effect: inc. 112mm gutters and 68mm downpipes - £1,936 FloPlast Cast Iron Effect: inc. 112mm gutters and 68mm downpipes - £1,319 Standard FloPlast: inc. 112mm gutters and 68mm downpipes - £341 It's amazing to see a factor of >10 in the price. On ScrewFix someone wrote in a review of the FloPlast cast iron effect: "This is standard plastic gutter that has been painted with a matt black textured paint to make it look like cast iron." I am tempted to have a go with some textured spray paint and see if I can make something that looks decent. Paint isn't ideal, but if that's what the FloPlast is then same compromise. I'm happy with black but my wife is set against it so painting may be the only option anyway. Is the Brett Martin cast iron effect moulded texture or painted as well? The big cost difference from FloPlast with Brett Martin is the cost of the downpipes as they look to have a connector moulded on.

Below are links that suggests there's scope to over specify here. If I follow the logic there is no need for laminated glass if the windows is key lockable and not within 400mm of a door of fire escape window: https://emplas.co.uk/news/2017/over-specification-on-pas24-and-sbd-could-mean-installers-are-losing-business-warning/ https://www.pbctoday.co.uk/news/building-control-news/meet-security-requirements-approved-document-q/26099/ Has anyone had non-laminated glass double glazed windows signed off on the ground floor? For example 4mm/16mm/4mm non-toughened glass (not laminated) with a key lock?

Someone may know better than me, but it looks as though if the window is locking it can be 6.4mm laminated glass and meet part Q. Secured By Design (SBD) looks to meet or exceed the requirements of part Q and there is a useful document which goes further than windows here.

I'm dubious about the extra cost myself. I just did a tot up and reckon that just the upgrade to 6.8mm laminated glass will cost >£2k for us. We could have a nice alarm and CCTV system for less than that. The next house is a distance away, so any burglar could happily arrive with a ladder and or sledge hammer and take his time. There's always a weak link and I think I'd rather it was the windows. It wouldn't take someone long to enter a house through the roof tiles if they wanted. You can get away with anything with a high vis jacket and a ladder. Added to that burglary rates are in general decline. A rise in home working, as I expect to for the foreseeable future, makes burglary even less attractive. I'm just feeling bitter about the extra cost though. Here's hoping I haven't tempted fate.

Can you do a DIY installation and qualify for the Renewal Heat Incentive?

Fitting with tile coursing/gauge makes sense but I think that makes for about 70mm steps in height