Roger440

Brilliant arent they!

So, you have arrived at a position where its cheaper to run. Thats good. You seem to have forgotton about the installation cost. And disruption. Thats before we think about insulation. Thats going to be an awfully long payback period. I think its fair to say, the demographic on here, can and do take long term view and will invest in "stuff" that will benefit over the long term. For the vast majority surviving month to month, how do you envisage that will work? Frankly, doesnt matter if the payback is 5 years, or even 3 years, its not afforable when you have a functioning heating system already.

Forget the stupidity, narratives, education and all that other stuff. What you need is systems being installed, by compentent people that work, and can be operated with no more fuss than a conventional system. At scale. Not going to happen. Wont happen, Cant happen.

Brilliant. Where do i sign up. Oh wait? I just need a spare £200k. Seems to be a major flaw in that plan................................... Edit to add, looks like ill be going down that rabbit hole. For one simple reason, much as i would love to build a new house, and explored just about every possibility, the reality is, it wasnt affordable. Wasnt then, isnt now, isnt going to be either.

I agree with this summary. However, it rather asks the question what is the whole BC inspection process for. What does it achieve? It clearly cannot pick up a faulty design like this (lets assume it is for the moment) for the reasons you state. The BCO will be reliant on the reports on ground conditions, and the corresponding foundation design. So long as he sees a set of plausible calcs, its good to go. To expect the BCO to check the integrity isnt realistic. Nor can there possibly be any comeback on the BCO. So again, what is the point? At a more basic level, installation of insulation, for example. They want to see it fitted. Doesnt care if its poorly fitted or doesnt even work, because cold air can circulate both sides. (see nce pretty picture in other thread). So long as its there, of the required thickness, tick in the box. So again, what is the point. Then of course, involving the BCO, is entirely optional. If you are a big developer then the last people you want on site. So dont have them there. So again what is the point? I really cant see what they are for beyond a means of employment for a number of people.

If connecting to the cast iron stack, id definiitely be checking it not blocked at the base. A 100 years plus of rusty scale falling done can often block it up as no actual fluids run done it to keep it clear.

Last point is subjective. And wont happen either. Thats exactly why so many of the wheezes dont get off the ground. And the purchasers are secondary, its the planners to get past first.

No need for them to have been signed off. They can sign them off themselves. Only first one needs inspecting. Whilst we dont know the actual details, i suspect just another example, as though it were needed, that the BC system is broken.

Nice. Good to see someone doing it. But 5 is not going to change much. The big boys are not using them. Until they do, at a mass markiet level, life continues as normal.

I suspect you are right. So just another wheeze to line the pockets of the "approved" installers. As steamy says, that "discount" will be swalled up by the installers. Meanwhile, im excluded.

Id agree, the way we build houses seems bonkers. And stuck in the stone ages. Whilst i know it happens to a limited degree, the solution to me seems to be build in a factory. But for some reason, this seems to be more expensive. Which doent compute in my mind. But the pace of change is glacial in the building industry. Im not sure what will change that. If i was 20 years younger and had the captial, its something id consider doing as a business. I think the bit thats missing, is any such system needs to churn out traditional looking buildings. All the ones ive seen look "different" in some way. Which surely must be to their detriment from a sales perspective.

Interesting stuff. I will in the next couple of years doing a mini refurb on the house and i keep pondering this. Im not a fan of the complexity it brings, but obviously there are plenty of benefits.

But who will build them? As always, where will the people come from?

Does this apply to purchases or does it have to be installed by an "approved" grant harvesting company installer? I couldnt see any reference to that?

The latter of those two is still doable without too much trouble.

I refer you to my earlier post. So what if its law? If no one enforces it, it will be ignore with impunity. Just like all the current regs. There is no one to enforce such a law.

Taking your first sentance, yes, thats correct. Nothing will change. Because it cant change. There are not the resouces to do it. Second sentance, not in my experience. Just as bad. That said, ive only seem a small sample. Agree with the rest.

Internal insulation in workshop inside existing block wall. So potential significant temp variation and high humidity. The manufacturers i spoke to claim its different. Im not clever enough to see why, and you may well be right. As its mine, i didnt want to take a chance and suffer interstatial condensation. I guess the point is, its a total minefield when you get into it. Trying to get a straight answer, virtually impossible. The sellers will sell you whatever they have. I need to be 100% confident that what im buying is what i need. You are obviously happy to make those judgements, and live with the consequences if it turns out you are wrong. I dont want to do that. Insulation wholesale dont really have it in stock. In this particular field, nobody stocks anything. Its all bullshit. Its all drop ship. Hence my troubles with 3 different suppliers who all claimed it was in stock, but then couldnt deliver in the quoted timescales. The 4th suppler did get it done, but sdadly the courier thought it was a good idea to not deliver it and sign it say recieved at midnight at their own depott. It has now disappeared without trace.

You can change the regs all you like. But who is going to sign off and test each one? Who doing that would be truly independant? Where would all these people come from. Who will they work for. What penalties will there be on the testers for non compliance? What about all the other aspects, like insulation. Thats multiple times more involved. The reality is, there are no answers to those questions that can realistically be implemented. Likewise, how will this "culture change" happen. Where will the thousands of technically capable people come from? Who will they work for? Who will manage them? In my experience the cost of running a house barely figures on the radar. For 99% of people, when buying a house, theres a choice of one. Its not like buying a car, where you can peruse the performance details of each and say, id like that one please to a salesman whos falling over himself to make the sale. Thats not how house buying works. Houses are in short supply, prices are high, and its very hard to actually get a purchase over the line. A notional lower long term cost just isnt relevant in that context.

Didnt see this when i replied above. Where does this info come from? Is it verifiable. Visquuen, for example list all 3 as seperate products, with differing tech sheets. Whilst you may well be right, i really want to see it from a manufacturer.

Thats a radon barrier. Which, according to what ive found, and the manufacturers tell me, are not the same thing as a vapour barrier. If it is the same thing, no one is admitting it. And ive no intention of finding out by fitting it then having a problem. I suspect the average builder is rather less choosy. Screwfix also list a vapour barrier, but unfortunately, the tech info and testing againt the EN number say its a damp poroof membrane. Indeed, one of the reviews says as much. Needless to say, screwfix have not updated there website, and no doubt they continue to sell the product, and people then fit the wrong product.

I think you need to keep the two things seperate. Whether or not the regs are easy to achieve or need tightening is entirely seperate point. We both know its not rocket science. Id still suggest, however, thats its pointless doing so as we are not building to current regs, or even ones before that. If we were to achieve a resonable degree of compliance with the regs, then, and only then consider tightening the regs. What can possibly be gained from tightening the regs, that almost no one complies with? Indeed, it will have the opposite effect. Compliance will fall further. As it will be even more unfathomable to the average builder. Indeed, as an aside, ive been trying to get some 1200ga vapour barrier. 3 weeks ive been trying, without sucess. With time ticking by, i had to resort to a 7 hour round trip to manchester. An "interesting" coversation with visqueen direct was had whilst trying to track some done. The conclusion from that farce, is that few people are buying or using this stuff. NONE of the major players have any stock to speak of, despite all being "stockists". So just, what exactly are the trade doing? I think i know. Not using any. Even when i spoke to people, i was offered DPM's instead, incorrect tapes, offers of all sorts of other "stuff" that complied with nothing, never mind the EN standard. Apart from visqueen themselves, no one understood why i wanted what i wanted and why didnt i just do what everyone else did. ie, use an unsuitable product. I cant see the current situation in the trade is recoverable. In the OP's case, its a refurb, so ive no idea why you would even involve a BCO unless its being brought back from derelict and contact with them is unavoidable.

Exactly what im saying. He doesnt need to know. Or care. There can be no comeback on him. He is fully protected. Just sign stuff off and collect the money.

Regulations are not the issue. Enforcement is. Regulation changes are completely pointless without enforcement. There has to be consequences to ignoring regulations. Currently the only consequence is that the inspector/BCO/self cetifier/builder/developer all get to make more money. The very opposite of whats required!

Sorry, i think you may have misunderstood what i was asking. Your post suggested that air tests were a desktop excercise, not an actual practical test. Is that what you are having done/experiencing? I have no house to test.