Roger440

Thanks. Though maybe not about the rabbit hole. Ive never done anything about my electricity supply as it just wasnt enough to worry about. At the new house however, costs are high as i have electric cooker and electric shower, and more demanding, direct resistance heating in the office etc in the barn. But as my previous post, theres not really anything to be saved unless i like lots of risk. I dont But as discussed before the alternatives will take loooong time to break even.

Agreed. Its just bonkers. As im still on the default scottish power standard rate i inherited when we moved in, im not seeing anything thats significantly better. Its just presented in the most complex difficult way imaginable so as to confuse something that should be (is) simple. I think i shall NOT contact them. I would no doubt be bombarded with emails for the rest of all time.

My understanding the reason why A2A isnt desired by government, is that it allows cooling as well as heating. And that uses more energy than no cooling. All the grants, incentives etc only apply to things that do heat ONLY. Aside from logis, lets forget that during peak cooling demand the big yellow ball in the sky will be shining and solar should be in abundance.

Which only brings us back to ProDaves point. Why are they actually costing £15-20K ?

I think you may have misunderstood my point.

Thanks. Never found that before. But to be honest, wish id never looked. How complicated is it possible to make it? But i guess thats the idea? Mind you, i dont understand it any way. Why do most of them have "eco7" day and night rates AND a flat rate. Surely its one or the other. ow can it possibly be both?

Always. Theres always commisons or back handers in the background. Does anyone actually understand the octopus website? Or do you HAVE to make contact with them to actually find out what sometghing will cost?

Exactly. Because a small risk exsists, lets stop it, price into oblivion, then wonder why progress is so slow. Do kwik fit still do the "we will do it again" if it all leaks away? I think the automotive trade and what goes on would be an eye opener for some on here. There are millions of cars running around pissing out refrigerant every day. And people keep topping them up. And when work needs doing and the AC is in the way of something, what do people think really happens?

I dont. Because there is no affordable practical answer. Theres circa 26 million houses in the UK. Id guess that at least 20 million are hopless from an efficency point of view. We have already concluded that updating the exsisting stock will have limited benefit even if it could be done well. Which it wont be. And it would take decades. And thats before we consider all the "new" problems with damp, mould etc that will be created. Or the cost. Lets say £40 - 50k a house. Its mind boggling numbers. Cant happen. Wont happen. So that leaves us with iceverge's idea, buldoze and build new. Even less likely to happen. The problems we have are ones we create by trying to artifically increase the pace of change, change that would happen over time anyway.

By any measure of logic, any victorian house (or older) still standing cant be that bad. Might be a thermal disaster, but not a bad house.

That would make no sense at all. Effectively fine those that cant afford to do so. Just to make sure they cant afford it. Makes no sense at all. So we would probably do it! I was referring to scotland specifically. In England, they have already made it such that the minister of state can specify what must be done in a specific house with a penalty of £15k or 6 months in prison. And our elected leaders thought this was a good idea. I guess i can look forward to spending my later yeas in prison. On the upside, will be better looked after than in a care home.........................

I assume you mrean we "sdhouldnt" be selling them to numptys? Problem is, installing myself is potentially affordable. Paying to have it done (borderline impossible here anyway) means its not affordable. So continue with what i have. Which is worse? Not that it changes the law. Its clear that by getting the customer to nominate an installer is sufficent to keep the regulator off their back. They all appear to be doing much the same.

I think we all know why. And now they have icreased the subsidy, they will be even more expensive. Ive not paid close attention, but how will the government force an owner occupier to get it to a C ?

On a theoretical level, its entirely logical. I never disagreed. Just completely impractical. Because who will pay? Where will i live in ther iterim. Who will pay. Wo will pay. If i could safford that, id have built a new house. I would have loved to do a new build. But in the end, it just couldnt be. I have niether the time, nor the money to do it. Never mind a complete lack of suitable plots etc. Especially as i want/need a decent sized workshop. The latter could never be got through planning on a new build.

Was the pump used rather than new?

Sounds great. But my point is, its cheap to run because it was expensive to install. Your money, your choice. But its cheap for a reason. Because of all the extra tackle you have tacked on. Which usually doesnt get a mention. But is absolutely key to its performance. Im unclear how you get a heat pump and cylinder installed for £3k though? Anything under 5 figures seems to be impossible. Id do it myself, but i still couldnt do it for that. Id like small bills when i retire, but i see no route to achieving it. Agree completely on the MOD thing. But for them, it will be a box ticked. No buring of fossil fuel. Minimal disruption. Who cares what it costs to run? We will be paying for it.

Not really. I was responding to Johnmo who, more than once claims how cheap his system is to run. Which is great. But only because of the huge capital outlay. Talking about one without the other, is, frankly pointless. Indeed to OP link to MOD is relevant to this. Dirt cheap to fit, probably not so cheap to run.

That really is bugger all. I can dream! I reckon i could get it down to circa 6, maybe a touch less. But it will cost £20k plus. With me doing all the work. And thats keeping the existing boiler. And moving out for 6 months plus. So no financial logic whatsoever. Just got to get combined household income under £31k, then i can have it all done for free courtesy of the welsh government.........

Puts my house into perspective. I reckon (well if it was colder, this year isnt normal) id do 15-18MWh in a year. Hopefully less, but it will be a useful excercise.

Not this again. You keep , in your posts, ignoring the capital outlay for a full system, batteries ands solar. Of course its cheap to run. But was hardly cheap to buy ? Payback period? Lots is the answer. Fortunate that you can fund it and take the long term view. So yes, i can agree with you, that contrary to nods assertion that gas must be cheaper. But only if looking at half the picture. Otherwise, he is correct.

It is possible/probable that a slab over conventional insulation may drive the moisture to the walls. But, frankly, its difficult to know until its done. Every situation is different. Our old house in bucks had had this done. It was a disaster. Our house in Wales, exactly the same. Not really a problem at all. Who knows why? Just isnt. Both solid wall, no DPC. What does it have now? Do you really need to tyake it up?

Very likely id say. In the automotive sector, they are ramping up enforcement in a big way after pretty much none for decades.

Can you say roughly how much and what they were?

Not any more. Got to provide info up front.

Ill limt my replies to the breathable aspect of the insulation and render. Tread carefully. Just because products say they are breathable, doesnt mean they are in this context. Check the actual numbers. This is quite a difficult thing to do succesfully without longer term issues.