self build.....where to start.....

[Amateur bob]

dan-wood are offering turn key deals on houses at not far off £1000/m2, whats the catch? very poor quality?

[Alex C]

5 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

dan-wood are offering turn key deals on houses at not far off £1000/m2, whats the catch? very poor quality?

There is no mention of groundworks or supplying services to the plot

[Gone West]

5 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

whats the catch?

Just check you're comparing like with like. Does £1000/m2 include foundations? If so is it an average price for foundations, getting out of the ground can vary enormously.

[Amateur bob]

Just now, Alex C said:

There is no mention of groundworks or supplying services to the plot

so that has to be done in advance at your own cost?

[Alex C]

 

1 minute ago, Amateur bob said:

so that has to be done in advance at your own cost?

Well its not in their spec on the website and they wont do it for free. Maybe give them a call 

[Jeremy Harris]

16 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

dan-wood are offering turn key deals on houses at not far off £1000/m2, whats the catch? very poor quality?

 

 

I've no experience with this company, but when we first started looking at builders I did have two meetings with a similar local firm.  They advertised a "turn key" package, with an attractive looking price, and at that time we thought that we could live with one of their standard designs. 

 

However, once we got a couple of weeks or so into negotiations, I found that there was a substantial list of "extras" that were not included in the price.  When these were added in the price rose by about 50%.

 

Worth asking them, though, to see what the reality is.  I suspect that, by the time the options and site-specific costs have been selected, the price will be a fair bit higher than the advertised price.

[vivienz]

I looked at Danwood when we first started. As with plenty of other similar offerings, you have to get all the groundworks done (yes, paid for up front by you) and there is a really tight tolerance on how level the slab must be to receive the subsequent building.

[lizzie]

Same experience on Danwood.  It is the USP of MBC that they offer the slab in the package thats part of the reason they get so much business as it takes away a risk and headache factor and not being the cheapest is mitigated by the security of a whole package, if it doesn't fit its their problem not yours......thats ultimately what swayed us other providers offered the same if not better TF but not the package and we were told it was a good bet to have the whole thing as one package.

[recoveringbuilder]

Yes +1 , we had decided to go with danwood and had had various conversations with their rep, you had to supply the slab or pay extra for them doing it, the last time I spoke to the rep was at the Homebuilding show in 2017 , we more or less told them we would be going with them and asked if there were any houses we could look at, they identified two within driving distance of us and said they would speak to the owner about us paying a visit, in the meantime we had plans they had sent us and on closer inspection the bedrooms were barely bigger than cupboards with no en-suite, garages were a whole lot of more money anything away from their standard plans were mega bucks, as it turned out we never got to see a house as they never contacted us again 

[Pocster]

51 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

Just check you're comparing like with like. Does £1000/m2 include foundations? If so is it an average price for foundations, getting out of the ground can vary enormously.

Or into the ground ?

[laurenco]

2 hours ago, Amateur bob said:

some useful information thanks, you say 4 times my net profit i should mention im one of 4 partners in the business and only have 5% share of the business so how does that affect it? im taking about 15k out the business a year, ive heard of scotframe would they save me costs on an architect as i could use one of their their pre designed houses?

 

I'd take advise on this from a mortgage broker. I only know from the perspective on self-employed own business with no other partners, so thy take 100% of the net profits as if it could have been taken as income. They'd probably take your actual earnings from your tax returns then.

 

Using a pre-designed house would save you tens of thousands in architect's fees, preparing working drawings, potentially the structural engineer too. What's everyone else paid in these fees alone?

[Jeremy Harris]

24 minutes ago, laurenco said:

Using a pre-designed house would save you tens of thousands in architect's fees, preparing working drawings, potentially the structural engineer too. What's everyone else paid in these fees alone?

 

The fees we were quoted from architects, for the design, planning application, building control submission and managing the build varied from 12% to 15% of the completed build cost.  Most of the cost was associated with the management of the build.

[Amateur bob]

15 hours ago, lizzie said:

Same experience on Danwood.  It is the USP of MBC that they offer the slab in the package thats part of the reason they get so much business as it takes away a risk and headache factor and not being the cheapest is mitigated by the security of a whole package, if it doesn't fit its their problem not yours......thats ultimately what swayed us other providers offered the same if not better TF but not the package and we were told it was a good bet to have the whole thing as one package.

who are MBC? do they have a website? out of interest i know it varies but what is a rough cost /m2 to get the groundworks done to the point one of these companies can take over?

[Jeremy Harris]

4 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

who are MBC? do they have a website? out of interest i know it varies but what is a rough cost /m2 to get the groundworks done to the point one of these companies can take over?

 

Search for MBC Timberframe. 

 

The cost of ground works varies enormously, depending on the nature of the plot, the terrain, and the soil conditions. 

 

For example, we had to dig out ~900 tonnes of soil to level our plot and get down to solid ground, at a cost of around £30k.  On top of that there was the cost of bringing in an electricity supply and the cost of installing a sewage treatment plant and associated drains (no mains drainage here). 

 

Someone on poorer ground conditions than us could easily incur another £10k to £30k in foundation related work, such as piles.

 

Someone on really good, level ground could get away with just scraping back the surface, perhaps, at a lot less cost.

 

Without knowing what the ground conditions are like it's really hard to estimate cost, it could probably span anything from £5k to £50k.

 

 

[Bozza]

On 06/06/2019 at 17:24, Christine Walker said:

Yes +1 , we had decided to go with danwood and had had various conversations with their rep, you had to supply the slab or pay extra for them doing it, the last time I spoke to the rep was at the Homebuilding show in 2017 , we more or less told them we would be going with them and asked if there were any houses we could look at, they identified two within driving distance of us and said they would speak to the owner about us paying a visit, in the meantime we had plans they had sent us and on closer inspection the bedrooms were barely bigger than cupboards with no en-suite, garages were a whole lot of more money anything away from their standard plans were mega bucks, as it turned out we never got to see a house as they never contacted us again 

 

I also had my heart set on building with Danwood, and was able to visit one one of their houses a week from handover.  I was shocked at some of the poor finishing quality - tiling trim, plastering etc. Also felt a draft from a closed window.  When I queried this with the rep the response wasn’t as I had hoped at all, somewhat dismissive. The other thing I didn’t like about their houses were their sockets and switches which seemed a bit cheapy plastic , and their internal doors which had a lip which went over the door surround which was a bit unusual.   Also if you want a room bigger than 4m they have to put a boxed beam dropped from the ceiling.  +1 that they were a bit slow to deal with, and were very expensive to do anything other than their standard houses.  Went elsewhere.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Bozza

[stephen margerison]

Don't be put off !!!  If you are getting the land, for little money, you have a head start !!   be kind to Dad, and ask if you can "tap into his topwater and sewerage" that could be £10-£15k saved,

fill in the form as connecting to existing !

If dad "gives you " the land, HE has to survive 7 years, otherwise tax may be payable. You can build for circa £1200 to £15000 not 2-3k as others have quoted. I would be tempted to follow previous advice, get the shell up, then you have time to ponder your next move, and you will know what you have left, be realistic with the size a good sized house would be say £200k 4 bed 3 ensuite .

remember, think TRADE TRADE TRADE do not use retail outlets !  

good luck

stephen

[Jeremy Harris]

2 minutes ago, stephen margerison said:

Don't be put off !!!  If you are getting the land, for little money, you have a head start !!   be kind to Dad, and ask if you can "tap into his topwater and sewerage" that could be £10-£15k saved,

fill in the form as connecting to existing !

If dad "gives you " the land, HE has to survive 7 years, otherwise tax may be payable. You can build for circa £1200 to £15000 not 2-3k as others have quoted. I would be tempted to follow previous advice, get the shell up, then you have time to ponder your next move, and you will know what you have left, be realistic with the size a good sized house would be say £200k 4 bed 3 ensuite .

remember, think TRADE TRADE TRADE do not use retail outlets !  

good luck

stephen

 

Not sure that it's wise to recommend breaching regs (and possibly the law).  The regs now prohibit illicitly connecting a second dwelling to the pipes running to/from an existing dwelling, there would be fraud implications, especially if the existing dwelling isn't on a metered water supply, plus building control would almost certainly flag it during the drain inspection and test.  Probably not that great an idea to promote potentially unlawful activity on this forum, either.

 

"Trade" prices aren't always the best, as many trade suppliers offer credit, as many trades people rely on supplier credit to reduce their up-front risk (having 30 days to pay suppliers gives them time to get paid for the work).   I found that offering cash with order pretty much always got better pricing, and many online suppliers easily beat the very best prices from builder's merchants.  As an example, I set up a cash account with my local independent builder's merchant, which was about 5% to 15% cheaper than the prices I would have got from a trade account.  However, when I wanted a load of reconstituted stone, plus the pavers for the drive, I got a very much better price from an online supplier.  My local BM offered to try and price match (I built up a good relationship with them), but they told me that they couldn't even buy in the stuff at the price I was getting from the online supplier.

[CC45]

when you register the property all those little dodges come to light - and if not then they will when you try to sell it eventually.  Just not worth it IMO.

[stephen margerison]

what are you talking about ?? no dodges, no fiddling, do you think on a site for 4-15 houses, they all have separate drains ?? no chance, there is one main road connection.

The last application I did was for a friend, and only 2 weeks ago, building inspector happy, I am talking foul and separate topwater, no incoming mains water supply, (which is metered individualy,as is gas and electric.

regards,

Stephen

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, stephen margerison said:

what are you talking about ?? no dodges, no fiddling, do you think on a site for 4-15 houses, they all have separate drains ?? no chance, there is one main road connection.

The last application I did was for a friend, and only 2 weeks ago, building inspector happy, I am talking foul and separate topwater, no incoming mains water supply, (which is metered individualy,as is gas and electric.

regards,

Stephen

 

 

You wrote this (my highlight):

 

14 hours ago, stephen margerison said:

 be kind to Dad, and ask if you can "tap into his topwater and sewerage" that could be £10-£15k saved,

 

 

Tapping in to an existing water communication pipe is not allowed.  I know, I've had chapter and verse on this, been through all the water regs and ended up having to drill a borehole for water as I wasn't legally allowed to connect to the 1 1/2" water pipe that literally runs 6 m away from our front door.  You are only allowed to connect to a pipe that is designated as a water main.  A pipe feeding a single property from a water main is a communication pipe, by definition.

 

 

[stephen margerison]

Sir I am talking about top water ie rainwater, and sewerage, going OUT of the site to the main sewerage system, NOT incoming 1/2"  water supply.

regards,

Stephen

[Jeremy Harris]

11 minutes ago, stephen margerison said:

Sir I am talking about top water ie rainwater, and sewerage, going OUT of the site to the main sewerage system, NOT incoming 1/2"  water supply.

regards,

Stephen

 

 

Sewer pipes and foul drains have a similar classification system.  If you just connect to an existing foul drain that runs from a dwelling to the main sewer you still have to go through the water company, who may well say that an additional connection to a communicating foul drain must not be made.  FWIW, I had this too, as our neighbour has a foul drain that runs to the main sewer, it goes under the stream that runs in front of both our houses.  I was not allowed to connect to their foul drain as it isn't a main sewer.  I also wasn't allowed to run a foul drain under the stream, as the EA regs that apply now don't allow foul drains to cross under a watercourse.  Instead I had to install a sewage treatment plant.

 

Surface drainage generally cannot now connect to a sewer in many areas, as the water companies are placing restrictions on the utilisation of combined sewers.  In the main they are still providing some combined sewers in urban areas, but tend not to if they can help it.  We have no combined sewers anywhere around here, so all new builds have to make their own separate provision for surface drainage (rainwater from hard surfaces and roofs), in accordance with the SuDS rules.

 

 

[lizzie]

Hesitate to join in here but....we had to get permission to join into main sewer that runs in field next to us..... this was not landowners permission but permission from authorities.  We put one proposal to them they rejected it, eventually we reached a compromise but we needed that permission otherwise would have ended up with treatment system on plot.  On run off (rainwater) you are not allowed to discharge into the sewer system, we had to find alternative means. We are lucky being next to fields we were able to find an acceptable way.  Again it needed permission and inspection.  They do come and inspect and you do need that sign off. Its not just a question of capacity it is getting permission to join in to an existing run. I would certainly not advocate connecting into anything without the ok from authorities, it will come back to bite you.

[Thedreamer]

18 hours ago, stephen margerison said:

Don't be put off !!!  If you are getting the land, for little money, you have a head start !!   be kind to Dad, and ask if you can "tap into his topwater and sewerage" that could be £10-£15k saved,

fill in the form as connecting to existing !

If dad "gives you " the land, HE has to survive 7 years, otherwise tax may be payable. You can build for circa £1200 to £15000 not 2-3k as others have quoted. I would be tempted to follow previous advice, get the shell up, then you have time to ponder your next move, and you will know what you have left, be realistic with the size a good sized house would be say £200k 4 bed 3 ensuite .

remember, think TRADE TRADE TRADE do not use retail outlets !  

good luck

stephen

 

Have to be very careful on putting the shell up and then borrowing against this at a later date.

 

1. Some building societies can have rules on borrowing on land/property which is close to family agricultural land. Although the land can be seen as being an asset realistically if in an agricultural environment it can be reviewed as being risky if the bank had to repose.

 

2. Also borrowing on a shell can be seen as being risky by a lender. You would need to ensure that you have inspections by a professional to provide assurance to the lender. 

 

Not many lenders in Scotland if that is where @Amateur bob is based so these are from my experience in dealing with lenders in Scotland.

[Amateur bob]

any of you heard of timber frame company Ptarmigan Homes? i had thought of using scotframe but i looked on company check and they has over £1m loss last year, could be risky?