Window install cost

[pauldoc]

I am looking to order my windows in the next week. I am trying to get a gauge of what to expect when getting a price for the installation.

I can obviously order supply only which it looks like quite a few have done on here and get my builder to install. He has yet to give me a quote for this so I am looking to see what would be a reasonable quote. He has mentioned a 'per window' charge.

Speaking to the suppliers, usual suspects-Rationel, Internorm, Velfac etc their install quotes seem astronomical!

Or maybe I am being naïve? I have a lot of glazing (approx 100m2) with 3 sets of sliding patio doors, and 2  full height glazed gables so I am guess I will prob need a crane.

One company quoted me £11,000 for fitting, another £90 a m2 so approx. £9000. One reason I was thinking to get the supplier to fit was if there are any problems down the line they don't blame the installation to wriggle out. But if my builder is considerable cheaper then I will prob go with him.

The windows are coming in around 25-30k. So the additional install of around 10k sounds high to me (and way over my budget also) Any advice?

 

[IanR]

I've got a similar amount of glazing and the install cost is about £8K for a "Passive House" install including extra tapes etc. They may have underestimated the install though, I started with 2 installers on site Monday and now have 6 this morning. I haven't needed a crane though which I'm sure would have added at least another £1K.

 

Are you going for a high level of airtightness? If so, does your builder understand how to deliver it. The detailing of the "extra" airtightness tape on mine is what seems to be taking the time.

[ProDave]

I got my builder to install mine. Cost about £2K but I have a LOT less windows than you.

 

Mine were Rationel. I had done all the negotiating to get the quote from Rationel as cheap as possible.

 

I then got my builder to do "supply and fit" so the builder ordered them, fitted them and invoiced me for the total. That of course meant there was no VAT to pay which helped my cash flow.  If I had ordered them, I would have had to pay the VAT and would not be able to re claim it for some time.  The fitting was simply charged on an hourly rate
 

[Alex C]

I have Ecohause Internorm windows. The installation was a rip off at over 8k, which I accepted as I thought I would get a premium job with easy comeback on damage or problems. The installers were subcontracted idiots who fitted windows badly and damaged nearly every window. I have just had magicman out to repair them, which he has been unable to do. Just to make it really clear Ecohause Internorm have been terrible to deal with and have offered an expensive and substandard service.

[ragg987]

I paid 5k to fit 24k of windows and doors. Triple glazed, 25 units, approx 60-70m2. No sliding doors involved. Norrsken - no complaints and would use again.

[jack]

We have something like 25 windows and doors, some very large (including a 5m long lift and slide triple glazed job that weighs nearly a tonne!)  We were initially charged around £6k to install them, which included travel from Ireland.  Seemed a bit high for the number of days involved, but we were spending a lot on expensive German windows, so we were willing spend more to get the right job done (the installers were the Irish representative for the company that supplied the windows). 

 

While the guys clearly knew what they were doing, it's also clear that they underestimated the size of the job.  They also hadn't installed the particular external blind system we went for and didn't realise that when they failed to lift all the windows by 15mm as shown in every drawing, none of the cills would fit, which meant none of the blinds could be installed.  A couple of the the MBC apertures were slightly shorter than they should have been, but to their credit they had someone onsite within a couple of hours to adjust a couple of the apertures that were particularly tight.  The real failure was that the installers failed to understand the impact of not packing up the windows as shown in the detailed drawings they'd had since they quoted.  

 

In the end, they left site early then returned the following week once the cills were "adjusted" (ie, butchered by me with an oscillating tool).  Unfortunately, at 4pm the day before they left to return to the site, they sent us a new invoice for something like an additional £1500, without any comment, for their extra travel time, accommodation and time on site.  They simply couldn't see why this would be a problem.  As far as they were concerned, the apertures were the wrong size, so it was our fault and they shouldn't be out of pocket because of it.  My position was that they held themselves out as the rep for this company, and I should therefore expect them to know the product, understand how to read details supplied by the window company, and understand the ramifications of not complying with them.  

 

After some negotiation, they eventually ended up onsite, only to discover that although the cills were now fine, they'd failed to understand how the external rails for the blinds needed to be fitted.  Cue me going around in front of them with a hammer, crowbar and oscillating tool removing all the lovely battening that MBC had so lovingly installed (and which we had been assured by the fitters wouldn't be in the way) from both sides of every window that had external blinds.

 

The perfect end to it all was a few weeks later when I went to remove the cills so I could put some EPDM over the now-exposed OSB in the window closure.  Imagine my surprise when I found that what I had thought was a blob of sealant around each screw holding the cills onto the window frames was in fact just evidence of the construction glue they used to permanently glue every cill into place!  Turns out that the screws they'd brought weren't long enough to go through the insulation and into the wooden frame, so they used glue and just used the screws to hold the cills in place while it went off.  As some point, I'm going to have to get new cills made, then cut off the old ones, repair the EPDM, and screw the new ones over them.

 

It's a real shame that it went this way, as the guys doing the installation were decent blokes who clearly knew what they were doing generally.  In my opinion, if they'd spent a little bit more of the travel time they'd billed us for looking at the detailed drawings, things would have been lot smoother.

 

I consider the window installation to be the thing I'm second-least happy with about the entire build (the brick slips were the worst, but that's another story!)

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by jack
double glazed should be triple glazed!

[Mikey_1980]

We are the same, our windows have been the biggest problem we have and our still ongoing. I won't name the company as we are still trying to resolve things. To their credit the fitters who were subcontractors have been excellent at overcoming problems, and trying to sort things for us when the people in the office don't seem to be able to do anything other than say the computer says it is going to get 8 weeks to get that part, when the fitter can go into the yard after fixing some other problems, spot the part that we need on another customer part that was being send back, strip it off and then spend two hours driving to us to fit it on a Friday evening to fit it as he was as frustrated as us with how things were being handled by the company.

[PeterW]

I'm looking now at the slightly eye watering prices for Windows and fitting here and wondering how on earth the suppliers justify them ..??

 

I may have to go the uPVC route for a number of reasons - not through choice -  although it will be triple glazing. My window fitter has said for a front door, two French doors, rear single door, 5 downstairs and 3 upstairs Windows it will be 3 days and £850...

 

That includes the sealants and fixings too. 

 

Tape will be done by me afterwards so even with that its another £200 and I'm just struggling to see how suppliers want big 4 figure numbers to fit Windows ..??

[jack]

I don't know whether the suppliers are loading up the sub-contractor's costs so they get a cut too.  I think I calculated that we were paying somewhere north of £300 per person per day, and one of the three was essentially a labourer.

[Declan52]

My brother in law is a window fitter and he gets on average £30 a unit. Smaller windows less and bigger windows more.  A door would be two units. The only hard bit in fitting a window is getting it to where it needs to be. After that it's pretty straight forward. So some of the figures being quoted are unreal in my book. Should have been a window fitter.

[Alex C]

My installers worked out at about £500 a day per person. I think the margins probably are not that great on the windows, but then fitting gets loaded as this is where all the problems can arise. There seems to be some sudden movement with my suppliers and their fitters with a rush to try and sort stuff out, perhaps they read this forum. I will update next week.

[IanR]

I can see where the cost is going on mine. With 16 man days for the install, delivery costs, consumables, hiring lift equipment, contingency to cover corrections and repairs. Yes the cost is a little "premium", but I'm expecting a premium service. 

[pauldoc]

Some very interesting and illuminating replies, thank you all.

Glad I am not alone in the belief that the prices bandied around are quite ridiculous. I to am of the opinion that the window companies are over inflating the fitting and making out of that to. I know that the windows being looked at on here are mainly of a higher spec than the normal high st upvc but you can get a whole house supplied and fitted for something like a third of what they want to charge me for fitting alone! I know there is a bit more involved as Peter said re tape etc but I would be very interested to see how many men they send out to do the fitting. I would think 3 tops. It is annoying that the customer is open to the risk then of damage done by their own fitters but that may be the way I have to go.

Hopefully my builder comes back with a reasonable price

[Stones]

I'm astonished at the prices some of you are being quoted.  For 13 windows and cills (4 of 1800 x 1800, 5 of 900 x 1800, 3 of 900 x 1500 and 2 of 1500 x 600), 1 velux and 2 doors my builder is charging £1200.  Judging by the amount of time taken, to fit and seal up the windows, I've been charged the going rate rate for joinery time up here.

 

When we built our last house 6 years ago, the TF company was going to charge £600 to factory fit the windows....

[jamiehamy]

Wow - seeing some of the prices I'm glad we put them in ourselves. We didn't really have an option mind you - thanks to the window company screwup, we had to re-engineer just about ever single opening - then fit. I don't think I would have trusted that to anyone else, esp with the ICF.

 

 

[TerryE]

On 07/09/2016 at 10:17, Alex C said:

I have Ecohause Internorm windows. The installation was a rip off at over 8k, which I accepted as I thought I would get a premium job with easy comeback on damage or problems. The installers were subcontracted idiots who fitted windows badly and damaged nearly every window. I have just had magicman out to repair them, which he has been unable to do. Just to make it really clear Ecohause Internorm have been terrible to deal with and have offered an expensive and substandard service.

 

Alex, I think that you've mentioned this before.  At the end of the day, your contract was with Ecohause Internorm and non-performance or damage of work carried out by the subcontractors was their responsibility, not yours.  I think that their T&Cs absolutely suck, but because that are non-negotiable, your rights under the Consumer Rights Act et al still apply: EI must supply product which is fit-for-purpose and to specification; this includes installation (and the consequences of failures in this).  You have right to insist on this.  You should put an honest value on the consequences of any installation failures and try to resolve this with EI.  The next step is a solicitors letter and the smalls claims court, so if you get no joy with EI then its time to have a chat with your solicitor.

 

In our case the Ecohause Internorm SW installation team did a pretty good job, and the installation leader mentioned that the installation was particularly trouble-free -- they'd costed for 3 days for 3 guys but in the end it took them just of over 1½!

 

@jack, as a result of my IT PM experience I always get paranoid where subcontractors have an interface and in this case of fitting the windows we had 3: MBC for the frame; EI for the windows and my builder for the external stone skin, so I spent a lot of time tying down the exact details of the framing and how the windows were to be supported.  I left nothing to an assumption that any one subcontractor would "do the right thing".  It is a bit late in your case but I am bloody glad that I did and I've seem quite a few other self builders fall into this bear-trap.

 

[Alex C]

I had another magic man out today booked by ecohause to try and make repairs. He was not successful. I have now been promised replacement for any damaged windows if they cannot be repaired properly. I am finally getting somewhere, but to be honest it should have all happened much quicker and been escalated to senior staff at an earlier stage. I read yesterday that ecohause expanded 30% last year, and it is quite clear they don't as yet have the staff to support that kind of expansion. Hopefully it will be all resolved, but it has caused a lot of stress and wasted massive amounts of my time.

[jack]

38 minutes ago, TerryE said:

 

@jack, as a result of my IT PM experience I always get paranoid where subcontractors have an interface and in this case of fitting the windows we had 3: MBC for the frame; EI for the windows and my builder for the external stone skin, so I spent a lot of time tying down the exact details of the framing and how the windows were to be supported.  I left nothing to an assumption that any one subcontractor would "do the right thing".  

 

Re: "tying down details", our architect worked out installation details for every single window and door, in plan, elevation and section, based on the window supplier's standard installation details.  We even took our architect to the factory in Germany, where he met the company owner and worked through all the drawings with him to make sure everyone was happy with the details.  Those details were then provided to the installers (who themselves were reps for the window company) before they even quoted.  I can't see how we could have tied the details down any more!

 

Basically, the problem was that neither I nor the installers appreciated the importance of the 15mm packing illustrated underneath the windows.  It doesn't really sound like much, and we were all very surprised when it meant that not a single cill could be installed.  This one oversight caused nearly all subsequent problems.  Even the ones it didn't directly cause were at least exacerbated due to the increasingly rushed job that this oversight led to.  

My main contribution to this failure was assuming that the installers would follow the standard installation detail used by the window manufacturer and provided in the drawings we provided.  I should have kept a closer eye on them  it to make sure they actually did it, but there was so much else going on at the time that I didn't notice it until it was too late.

 

It's a nice idea that these sorts of issues are somehow avoidable by thinking carefully about details, but in the heat of battle - and there were plenty of other problems to manage and stressful situations to overcome during installation - things are overlooked.  In complex situations like these I think you just have accept that errors may happen and hopefully you learn something to reduce the chance of similar errors happening again.

[Stones]

You would have thought approved installers would understand what was required, but as you say, just goes to show what can happen on site despite best laid plans.

[jack]

If the walls had been only slightly less thick, or the windows set only slightly further out relative to the wall thickness, the issue wouldn't have arisen.  I suspect they may not have installed these particular windows in such a situation before.

Edited September 8, 2016 by jack
Too much text...

[Mikey_1980]

@Alex C what is the damage like that they have been unable to repair I am waiting for them to come out to us.

[Alex C]

General builders just don't read drawings, they do what they know how to do and thats it. Anything else seems to be an exception to the rule. I have been involved in commercial interiors for 20 years and it has only been the really high end tradesmen and specialists like electricians and plumbers that seem to bother. I was speaking to an 85 year old architect recently who said exactly the same thing.

[Alex C]

The window damage is just small dents. They were complaining about the finish being hard to match (it is the white washed timber). I know I am more fussy than average about finish, but the repair was something anyone could spot straight away.

[Declan52]

Not about being fussy. You paid for them to come without dents so you expect them to be like that, end of. And don't just let them away with it as its too time consuming chasing them up.

[TerryE]

@jack,  I just don't know how anyone can do a build whilst holding down a job at the same time.  We picked up most things because we are working one site most days for 10+ hours when the builders are here.  Still missed a couple to my great annoyance, but my internal cills are OK.  The only prob with the external ones is that we wanted DPC one stone course below and both my builder and stone mason didn't think it necessary so "forgot":  "the important one is the DPC above the lintel"