Screeding over asbestos

[amavadia]

In situations where there are black asbestos tiles stuck down with asbestos cutback, is it better to screed over both the tiles and cutback with self levelling compound or remove the tiles first and screed over the cutback only?

 

Will self levelling even adhere to the shiney surface of the vinyl tiles?

 

 

[SteamyTea]

The responsible thing to do is remove them properly.  Saves anyone digging them up unwittingly in the future.  The cost of doing it now is cheaper than later.  Trouble is you have to bear that cost.

[amavadia]

8 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

The responsible thing to do is remove them properly.  Saves anyone digging them up unwittingly in the future.  The cost of doing it now is cheaper than later.  Trouble is you have to bear that cost.

That’s easy to say when you personally are not the one who would have to fork out thousands of pounds.

 

This thread is about which is the safer option, whether to leave or remove the tiles. 

[Jeremy Harris]

The safer option is to remove the tiles, taking the appropriate precautions and get them properly disposed of, as that removes the risk completely.  Burying the tiles increases the risk, as it's not then obvious that there may be a hazardous material in the floor.  Anyone could then drill through, or dig up, the floor and expose themselves to a fatal risk.

 

It only takes a single asbestos fibre to cause a very unpleasant death.

[PeterW]

@amavadia have you had the tiles and screed tested and got a proper result from a lab..?

 

The types of asbestos vary, and using the correct PPE you can remove some types yourself at a reasonable cost. (Usually the disposal cost) This is a much better option than leaving an issue for someone else, and also it will help you with the current problem as SLC over anything with that sort of surface will most likely not adhere properly.

[amavadia]

Yes it is chrysotile asbestos. The tiles come off relatively easily and can be disposed of at my local tip. But the problem is the cutback which is on there solid.

[amavadia]

8 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

The safer option is to remove the tiles, taking the appropriate precautions and get them properly disposed of, as that removes the risk completely.  Burying the tiles increases the risk, as it's not then obvious that there may be a hazardous material in the floor.  Anyone could then drill through, or dig up, the floor and expose themselves to a fatal risk.

 

It only takes a single asbestos fibre to cause a very unpleasant death.

I think that would need to be one unlucky person if they inhaled a single fibre and died from it. Clearly it’s dangerous and needs to be dealt with precaution but we breath fibres in all the time... break pads from old cars for example. I saw someone drilling into the soffits of their house on my road which are asbestos. I told them and they carried on doing it so again that is in the air. 

 

Clearly if abatement wasn’t so expensive I would have had it removed but the quotes I’ve had are in the thousands for a day’s work. 

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, amavadia said:

I think that would need to be one unlucky person if they inhaled a single fibre and died from it. Clearly it’s dangerous and needs to be dealt with precaution but we breath fibres in all the time... break pads from old cars for example. I saw someone drilling into the soffits of their house on my road which are asbestos. I told them and they carried on doing it so again that is in the air. 

 

Clearly if abatement wasn’t so expensive I would have had it removed but the quotes I’ve had are in the thousands for a day’s work. 

 

 

The unlucky person was my father in law.  He'd inhaled a fibre of what was almost certainly chrysotile some time in the 1960's, he thought, when doing walk arounds pre-flight on the Comet (he was a Comet pilot at the time), which had chrysotile asbestos insulation exposed under the engine cowlings.  His death was extremely unpleasant, and not something I'd wish on anyone.

 

 

[Ferdinand]

I think my comment would be take expert advice, then follow a course of action recommended by the expert (who may offer you more than one possibility).

 

I am someone who also lost a father to asbestosis - in this case probably from being the supervising architect on a ventilation system incorporating asbestos back in the late 60s ie not even working with it physically.

 

If you encapsulate, then there are regulations that apply - and presumably possible future liability issues.

 

This is imo one of the times not to cut corners. 

 

Ferdinand

Edited May 23, 2019 by Ferdinand

[newhome]

9 hours ago, JSHarris said:

The unlucky person was my father in law. 

 

And another unlucky person was my husband who never worked with it directly but came across it in his job years ago and died a horrible painful death. If you are susceptible to the fibres it only takes a single breath which is why teachers are dying of mesothelioma because older schools are full of it and in the past they would have been in contact with fibres simply by pinning children’s drawings to the wall. I wouldn’t wish that death on anyone having witnessed it! 

[ProDave]

5 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

....which is why teachers are dying of mesothelioma because older schools are full of it and in the past they would have been in contact with fibres simply by pinning children’s drawings to the wall. I wouldn’t wish that death on anyone having witnessed it! 

When I was in middle school, I remember one particular corridor where the ceiling covering was a grey fluffy material behind an outer covering resembling paper and painted.  But there were lots of holes in it and as children do we used to take a run and jump to poke our fingers in the hole.  Then next school year after the holdays it was all gone.  That was almost certainly some form of asbestos.

 

That was 45 years ago now, so hopefully if it hasn't got me by now I have escaped.  But one wonders how many were not so lucky from things like that.

[newhome]

32 minutes ago, ProDave said:

That was 45 years ago now, so hopefully if it hasn't got me by now I have escaped.  But one wonders how many were not so lucky from things like that.

 

They believe there is a genetic susceptibility to it but are not sure exactly what. They are doing lots of testing on it currently to try to identify the gene(s) responsible. As an example there was almost an ‘epidemic’ of mesothelioma in the Cappadocia region of Turkey where families were exposed to erionite (the mineral has properties similar to asbestos). Whole families were affected by it and died whilst other whole families who lived alongside those affected escaped it.

 

I imagine most of us have come across asbestos inadvertently but most of us will escape being affected by it, but for those who are affected by it it’s devastating. One of the most painful and aggressive cancers you can get and always terminal. If you know there is asbestos there it must be treated with respect and is not something to cut corners on. 

[joe90]

The lady I bought my last house from was married to the head of ICI at a depot where they made asbestos products, so she told me he even went on TV to say it was harmless, a few years later he was unwell and on examination he was eaten out by the stuff and died quickly afterwards. She was embarrassed by the situation and rarely went out. ICI paid for an annual checkup for her as her husband almost certainly brought fibres home on his clothes. She was lucky but died of unrelated health conditions years later. The stuff is not to be messed with.

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, newhome said:

They believe there is a genetic susceptibility to it but are not sure exactly what

That's interesting research.

Back in the late 1950's and early 1960's, my Father was a project engineer for Shell.  He was part of a team building a new refinery in Brunei (we were economic migrants before the term was unpopular).

Part of the project was to lag all the high temperature pipes with asbestos.  This was done my mixing it up with a binder and slapping it on by hand.

Though my Father was not actually doing the work, out of the 4 British engineers on the project, 3 died of asbestosis.  They all died before they were 65.

My Father was the lucky one, cancer of the spine got him, but at a decent age.

So probably genetics plays a small part, not the major influence. 

The risks of asbestos were well know even back then.

I often wonder how many of the 100's of Indian workers died of it.

 

Do the right things, get it removed properly.

Edited May 23, 2019 by SteamyTea

[Onoff]

6 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

That's interesting research.

Back in the late 1950's and early 1960's, my Father was a project engineer for Shell.  He was part of a team building a new refinery in Brunei (we were economic migrants before the term was unpopular).

Part of the project was to lag all the high temperature pipes with asbestos.  This was done my mixing it up with a binder and slapping it on by hand.

Though my Father was not actually doing the work, out of the 4 British engineers on the project, 3 died of asbestosis.  They all died before they were 65.

My Father was the lucky one, cancer of the spine got him, but at a decent age.

The risks of asbestos were well know even back then.

I often wonder how many of the 100's of Indian workers died of it.

 

Do the right things, get it removed properly.

 

Interesting. My FiL worked at one of the big paper mills locally where they fed back into the grid. The turbines were coal fired and the flue sections packed with asbestos "powder". One day they dropped one from some height off a crane and it apparently split & permeated through the whole plant. He had annual X-rays covered by his old firm up until aged about 80.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Onoff

[lizzie]

When I was a child we had an ironing board with a grey heat proof area where the iron sat.  I used to draw things on it with a sharp implement, it made dust etc..... I know now that was asbestos and I do wonder if that has contributed to the progressive lung condition I developed in my 50’s.

[newhome]

Unfortunately there are still some idiots around who claim that the health risks are exaggerated 

 

Trump ?

 

[Triassic]

Thé Health and Safety Executive have some helpful guidance on removing asbestos containing floor tiles.

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/floortiles.htm

[Gooman]

The precise datasheet is here: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/guidance/a23.pdf

 

Although removal is preferred, the HSE does produce datasheets for encapsulation. There is a legal requirement that, if you're selling a property that you know to contain asbestos, you must disclose this during the sale.

 

The smart thing to do if encapsulating (or even just leaving any in-situ) would be to put a notice somewhere that someone will see in future - maybe in a cupboard (if this is in the kitchen), plus also next to a general utilities space such as the electricity distribution board.