Rationel Windows - Payment Terms

[Triassic]

I’m about to press the go button on my windows and the payment terms were presented, 50% on order and 50% 2 weeks before delivery!

 

Are these terms normal?

 

I assume if I pay part on credit card and the rest via BACs i’ll protect myself from the manufacturer and/or the local supplier going bust? This is a significant amount of money and I can’t afford to loose it!

Edited May 8, 2019 by Triassic

[Carrerahill]

19 minutes ago, Triassic said:

I’m about to press the go button on my windows and the payment terms were presented, 50% on order and 50% 2 weeks before delivery!

 

Are these terms normal?

 

I assume if I pay part on credit card and the rest via BACs i’ll protect myself from the manufacturer and/or the local supplier going bust? This is a significant amount of money and I can’t afford to loose it!

My windows are on order, have been for weeks and I have not paid a penny.

 

Arrangement is full payment on collection or just before delivery.

 

If you are worried then talk to them.

[Triassic]

3 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

If you are worried then talk to them.

 

I have talked to them (Rationel Windows) via their local supplier. Rationel is adamant that want 50% on order and 50% two weeks prior to delivery, they say they'll provide a Vesting Certificate on final payment confirming I own the windows?!!

 

The local supplier tells me that Rationel has withdrawn all credit facilities from smaller suppliers?

 

[ToughButterCup]

31 minutes ago, Triassic said:

I’m about to press the go button on my windows and the payment terms were presented, 50% on order and 50% 2 weeks before delivery!

Are these terms normal?

[...]

 

I think so. Gaulhofer's terms are the same (I'm almost sure). Watch the fitting cost payment terms, though. Ecowin offer a 50% retention - and they've been back a couple of times without question .....

[jamiehamy]

Based on my bitter experience and that of others, , not a chance in hell I'd accept that. I'd not accept anything other than a large chunk on delivery and remaining 10% after fitting. If you oay it all before they are delivered you can wave goodbye to any leverage when there are issues. If they don't like it, walk away. Someone else will take your money and be confident enough of getting it right. 

 

 

[ProDave]

Those were the terms when I bought my Rationel windows.

 

Who are you buying through?  Mine came via ADW in Cumbernauld.

 

It was slightly more complicated as I actually got them through my builder on a supply and fit basis (so no VAT charged to me) so I paid the builder 50% on the window price on placing the order and the final payment, including installation after they were fitted.

[Big Neil]

Another supplier maybe with whom credit hasn't been withdrawn? Which Rationel windows did you go with by the way?

 

[Carrerahill]

33 minutes ago, Triassic said:

I have talked to them (Rationel Windows) via their local supplier. Rationel is adamant that want 50% on order and 50% two weeks prior to delivery, they say they'll provide a Vesting Certificate on final payment confirming I own the windows?!!

 

The local supplier tells me that Rationel has withdrawn all credit facilities from smaller suppliers?

 

 

Why do they need the final payment 2 weeks before? Presumably at this stage they have got all the materials for your order and started your order, so it is not like the second payment is to buy materials so why this cannot be prior to delivery I do not know  - I would say not a chance, I'd probably walk away.

 

Also, if they say they will give you a certificate saying you own them then that suggests they have been made... yet it's 2 weeks before delivery so what do they need another 2 weeks for, well I deduce that means that actually they are still not finished... so there is nothing for you to own so how could they legally give you a certificate of ownership if no asset exists?

 

[lizzie]

Those were the terms for the Internorm windows too...pay in full for windows and only fitting remained to be paid afterwards.  This meant the only leverage I had on the massive problems with the windows was  not to pay the fitting charge.  The supplier never sorted the problems with the windows nor have I paid the fitting charge. They walked away. Stalemate.  I have used the fitting money to achieve a watertight install - that is not a correct install as my level thresholds are still 10mm - 15mm off the ff because of drainage issues and many people say they will come and work out a solution to tidy it up it but never actually do so they remain in this state. Small cosmetic job now to make it look right and nigh on impossible to get someone out to sort. 

 

I would never pay in full again until I was completely happy.  The problem with these window companies is they supply to their registered installers, they take no responsibility for the botched installs even though they are their installers.  You are caught between a  rock and a hard place with them.  If they wont accommodate you I would go to a different company, your credit card will only help to a limited degree.  Get a company who are happy to have a substantial balance retained until the job is done to your satisfaction otherwise you risk being in the situation I and others on this forum are in with window companies.

[craig]

We ask for 50% upfront, simply because we refuse to take a credit arrangement with our supplier, they require full payment before releasing to the logistics team for transport.

 

So we ask for 47.5% 3 weeks before arrival to site. It’s a lot of money but we offer guarantee of supply from ourselves, insurance and confirmation money has been transferred via our currency supplier.

 

It’s not a lot but depending on order size it can be anywhere from a couple of quid to a few thousand into the tens/hundreds of thousands as a 2.5% retention.

 

We are just changing our installation to 100% on the day installation commences. Then the 2.5% upon sign off.

 

We’ll attend back for any window related or install related issues without question. Any visits after the first year (i.e adjustments), will now incur a call out fee.

Edited May 8, 2019 by craig

[lizzie]

@craig wish you had done my windows?

[newhome]

Picking up on the credit card question, yes you will be covered by Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act if you pay a small amount (suggest £100 because that means the window company won’t be paying lots in credit card fees) and the balance by BACS or whatever as long as the total cost is under 30k. 

 

The issue appears to be that most window companies don’t offer the ability to pay even a small amount by credit card it seems. 

 

 

[Vijay]

Isn't there also an issue with who process credit cards for section 75 too? I'm sure I saw on TV that some credit card processing firms aren't backed by section 75, so worth double checking

[Triassic]

30 minutes ago, Vijay said:

Isn't there also an issue with who process credit cards for section 75 too? I'm sure I saw on TV that some credit card processing firms aren't backed by section 75, so worth double checking

How would I know this? Who am I double checking with?

[Triassic]

1 hour ago, newhome said:

The issue appears to be that most window companies don’t offer the ability to pay even a small amount by credit card it seems. 

So if Rationel and “most window companies” don’t offer credit card facilities, what sort of position am I left I left in? How do insure against loss?

[lizzie]

@Triassic you don’t you have sleepless nights until the goods arrive on site LOL

[newhome]

10 minutes ago, Triassic said:

So if Rationel and “most window companies” don’t offer credit card facilities, what sort of position am I left I left in? How do insure against loss?

 

You are left with a squeaky bum until the goods arrive! I think it's an appalling way to have to deal with large purchases personally. The only way to mitigate the risk to a degree is to fully research the company you are using. How long have they been trading? What are their accounts like? How many companies have the directors been involved in that are no longer trading? If you see a pattern where after a year or 2 the company reinvents itself as a new company run for the hills. 

 

Companies House register

 

[Vijay]

2 hours ago, Triassic said:

How would I know this? Who am I double checking with?

 

You ask who ever you're paying what credit card merchant they use and then ring your credit card company

[newhome]

2 hours ago, Triassic said:

How would I know this? Who am I double checking with?

 

It depends whether the payment counts as a 3rd party payment or not. Also your payment must be to the company you are dealing with directly, not a different company. There is a bit more advice here:

 

Section 75

 

 

 

 

 

[craig]

The issue we have, irrespective of credit history, is we are a window supplier. No matter the balance the risk to card company is too high.

 

They want to retain the money for 30+ days before releasing it, taken another 7 days or so.

 

Effectively delaying production starting by up to 6 weeks. We have card facilities but they won’t allow the window orders through card payments. 

 

Might actually check with them again on smaller amount payments, for section 75 safety to the consumer. I have a funny feeling what they will say.

Edited May 8, 2019 by craig

[newhome]

13 minutes ago, craig said:

The issue we have, irrespective of credit history, is we are a window supplier. No matter the balance the risk to card company is too high.

 

 

I thought it might be something like that. I'm surprised though as some suppliers that accept card payments (not for windows but just in general) are well dodgy in my opinion. Must be the typical value of the transactions that makes the use of credit cards a challenge I imagine. 

[SteamyTea]

8 hours ago, craig said:

The issue we have, irrespective of credit history, is we are a window supplier. No matter the balance the risk to card company is too high.

 

They want to retain the money for 30+ days before releasing it, taken another 7 days or so.

Had the same when I was working for a PV company, which was really a double glazing company behind the scenes.

[Triassic]

9 hours ago, craig said:

The issue we have, irrespective of credit history, is we are a window supplier. No matter the balance the risk to card company is too high.

But wait a moment, taking a small deposit via a credit card must move the risk to the credit card company. At the moment the risk is all mine!

[ToughButterCup]

13 hours ago, lizzie said:

@craig wish you had done my windows?

 

He's a very nice man @lizzie, a very very nice man. Ugly, though.

[craig]

2 minutes ago, Triassic said:

But wait a moment, taking a small deposit via a credit card must move the risk to the credit card company. At the moment the risk is all mine!

 

It is, you need to ask if it’s a risk worth taking and what can you do to try and mitigate that risk?

 

I would be asking for a gaurantee of supply once the initial payment has been made, Rationel confirming payment received.