Mr Punter Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 We have a peninsular with the return 950 deep for seating. I like it because it gives a good run of worktop and with it wrapping round it is all within easy reach. I like sink and hob on the same run of worktop. I am not keen on the current fashion of a bank of tall units housing numerous ovens / fridges etc with no adjacent worktop. I have put islands in before but it is definitely not the best solution for all or even most kitchens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulhamdown Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: I have put islands in before but it is definitely not the best solution for all or even most kitchens. I would have thought it is more to do with the way the kitchen is used. We have a large kitchen, and my wife is a very keen and able cook. Our island is 7'6" x 4' with a 5'6 x 3' table area attached to it at right angles. Virtually all food preparation is done on the island's granite top, and the lower level is ideal for breakfast, and everyday eating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mr Punter said: @lizzie can you still use the ovens etc when you have 4 seated? 2 hours ago, Mr Punter said: @lizzie can you still use the ovens etc when you have 4 seated? yes of course?and I have a worktop next to the oven at the side. I wouldn't do this arrangement in all kitchens but it is perfect in my linear space...and yes I do cook they are not decorative ovens as a look inside would show LOL Edited April 30, 2019 by lizzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 12 hours ago, jack said: I agree with every word of the first response in this thread. We didn't want the "line of stools" approach, so the dining table side of the island is cupboards and shelves along two thirds of its length. The remaining third is completely open on both sides (and closed on the end by a vertical support), so four people can sit comfortable facing each other without banging their knees. Indeed, cool idea! 12 hours ago, jack said: There are double power points underneath this section that can't be seen, but are easy to get to from both sides - good for plugging in a phone or a laptop (on the table side), or a kitchen mixer. Also quite helpful it sounds. 12 hours ago, jack said: We have the hob on the island and the sink against the wall behind and slightly offset so both can comfortable be used without standing back to back. This is an interesting point, although I'm not certain where I specifically stand. While cooking, certainly, straight in front of the hob. But while using the sink... it depends on what I'm doing but sometimes the sink is a place to dump veg waste but I'm standing more next to it than in front.. 12 hours ago, jack said: It's planned so that you walk into the kitchen from one side with plates etc, scrape into the bins in the cupboard on the left of the sink, rinse if needed, then load into the dishwasher immediately to the right of the sink. Cups, glasses and crockery can all be put away from the dishwasher without any movement other than bending and pivoting. I think I get the idea, but a picture/drawing would be helpful! 12 hours ago, jack said: We've lived in the house for over three years, but it took us over two years to find stools we didn't hate that were the right height for the space under the island. I want stools with proper back support. Is this a thing? 12 hours ago, jack said: Since getting them, we hardly ever sit at the dining table any more. It just seems more social to sit up at the island. In fact, we had a couple of friends over last night for supper. We all sat at the island with drinks and nibbles while dinner was being made, then it just seemed natural to stay where we were rather than moving everything over to the table. Obviously we're limited to doing this when there are only four people eating, but that often works out just fine. Yeah I thought about this quite a bit, the majority of times this would be something I could imagine being our default. And only once or twice per year does someone 'fancy' over, where you want to bring out the good napkins, so it might not be worth optimizing for. I am still debating a small 'lounge area' in the kitchen. it might be more comfortable having a bit of a round couch+table for relaxing at and keeping the chef company, 12 hours ago, jack said: You do need to be scrupulous about not letting junk accumulate (we don't really manage it), but to be fair this is going to be a problem with all horizontal surfaces in a kitchen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 On 30/04/2019 at 06:19, Ferdinand said: @puntloos What interesting questions you are asking. Just responding on the other thread. Oh No it isn't ! OH YES IT IS! (OK, you're right, but especially for prospective buyers, seeing a kitchen has an island raises the estimated sell price considerably. Not saying deservedly so but people take its presence to be shorthand for 'fancy') Quote You are being subliminally conditioned by the Zillons from the Planet Tharg. Take care and at least watch other options. Agreed, although I must say so far this discussion thread has pushed me more towards the pro-island side. I am intruiged by the idea of a peninsula though. Perhaps it's the best of both worlds Quote I did a fish cookery course last year in the Cook's own kitchen, and she had a hole in the island worktop, with a lid, which went straight through to the food bin below. So just sweep all the waste straight in. Great idea - for a cook. Oh yes, I want a waste hole right next to the cutting area. Quote Alternatively, if you build model soldiers on your Island - Bugger! I just lost General Wolfe! and dragons in the North! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 23 hours ago, janelondon said: I think the biggest advantage of having an island is the social element. Thank you for your comments, I hadn't thought through the social element enough, but physically facing others makes a lot of sense. 23 hours ago, janelondon said: Hob for me. Some like having a sink on the island, but I prefer having the sink against the wall with a window above. Having a hob on the island means I can look out to my living/dining area while cooking and can interact with guests etc. Depends on your personal preference really. Other than hob, just a big clear space for food prep. Size will depend on your kitchen space. I'd have the waste bin where the sink is - so if you have an island in your sink then yes. I'm thinking I agree the main sink should be near the wall.. but the idea of cleaning veg (and I often need running water for this) means I probably would want a tiny sink near the hob and probably on the island. Maybe the idea of those 'quooker' (sp?) taps with a proper drain could work. Using the tap for veg cleaning as well as quick water supply for thirsty people. 23 hours ago, janelondon said: I've seen someone incorporate an ice trough (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/558376053781614786/) to keep wine cool - pretty neat! Ha, overkill for me.. but to each their own 23 hours ago, janelondon said: All of the above! Also an informal dining/drinks area. Would also have power sockets to power all the kitchen appliances (blender etc.) or use it as an informal "work" area. Have a drink? Chat? All the time. It inevitably becomes a bit of a gathering point (and also dumping ground by others as much as I try to keep it clear of clutter!) Have an overhang so you can comfortably sit under. https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/220817187966211273/ Still worried I would keep hitting the hard bits. I think I might have to go for a full "tunnel" like so: (bad kitchen otherwise, just pointing at the seating section) 23 hours ago, janelondon said: I think that depends on how the rest of your kitchen is configured. If designed well having it really is no less efficient. Other points - Watch out for seat height vs island height to make sure it works out comfortably - Lighting design is crucial here Any tips? Lights straight above the sink? hob? 23 hours ago, janelondon said: - If your island is rather deep, drawers are so much more functional when it comes to ease of access. Compared to..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 16 hours ago, ProDave said: Here is ours The sink and ovens are on the conventional run of units along the wall. Turn round when at the sink and you are now looking at the hob. The other side of the island is a seating area or "breakfast bar" The bit that is probably not ideal in our layout is the fridge. Next to the fridge where the closk is in this picture is going to be boxed in as a pantry. It is access to what will be the pantry that makes it essential that this is an island so you can walk past either end of it to get to the fridge or the pantry. It would be no good as a peninsula from the wall for instance it must be a true island. At the moment the gap between the wall run of units and the island we think is too big. It is set to that gap to satisfy Scottish building regs but we are near certain after sogn off the island will be moved a little closer to the sink. Are islands easily moved? A few cm sure, but anything meaningful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 15 hours ago, Declan52 said: I have an island that is roughly 1m X 2.5m. I have the hob in the bottom right hand corner. It works brilliant in our house as we have an over hang on 2 sides so can sit 5 easily so when your doing a nice Sunday breakfast the family can sit and watch you like little puppies waiting on their food. If you like baking then it also gives a really good space to roll out dough and prepare all your ingredients. Then if you are having a house party you can get near 15 people round drinking and eating from good sitting in the middle. Think about extraction of your going to put the hob in the island plus things like pop up sockets to plug other things into. Then you have lighting to consider so its well lit up. I have 6 downlights over mine. I was wondering about extraction. Some random extractor far above seems... ineffective.. but is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 14 hours ago, divorcingjack said: So we have a massive island in our new kitchen. We thought of it as a "thing" in itself, rather than actually part of the kitchen, although of course it is functional. It is solely drawers, no cupboards at all, and has a prep sink (quite small), quooker tap, hob, waste disposal, and bins This, I think, is what I'm settling into. You have a larger sink elsewhere I assume? 14 hours ago, divorcingjack said: . Ovens, fridge, freezer and pull out pantries with ingredients are directly behind the island prep area, so you can turn around and take stuff out of the oven without walking all over the kitchen with it. Good point, freezer I think I'll put in the utility room though. Needs to be nearby but a bit of a space waste to be too local I think 14 hours ago, divorcingjack said: We don't have any other work surface in the kitchen - all the units behind the island are full height against the wall, so we deliberately made the island oversized. There is (controversially) no seating at the island though - we've had it before and found it uncomfortable and not really used. Our dining table and bench seating is next to the island, so we'll use that instead. I love it! Clearly families need to form habits around what's offered, I can certainly imagine it 'turning out' you would never use certain things... hard to predict sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 12 hours ago, lizzie said: My island which incorporates a seating area similar to @jack is 5.2m end to end. I have split the surfaces to delineate eating and working. I have honed granite on the working end (where the hob is) and river washed oak on the seating end. I have my sink back against the wall slightly offset of the hob so its not cramped if two are there. Usual ovens, fridges, dishwasher bins etc are on the sink wall. Very happy with my island and kitchen as a whole It's beautiful.. but wow that's a massive island.... It does open a whole new can of worms for me.. how much space to allocate for a kitchen.... and obviously, what could you do with the space if you don't use it as kitchen.. In my current house design I'd have to sacrifice either livingroom, or utility room space if I want a larger kitchen.. both seem better uses in my case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 9 hours ago, pulhamdown said: I would have thought it is more to do with the way the kitchen is used. We have a large kitchen, and my wife is a very keen and able cook. Our island is 7'6" x 4' with a 5'6 x 3' table area attached to it at right angles. Virtually all food preparation is done on the island's granite top, and the lower level is ideal for breakfast, and everyday eating. Isn't granite hard to clean? Meaning, you can't use any serious cleaning liquids on it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, puntloos said: I want stools with proper back support. Is this a thing? I use Ikea Franklin models in a student rental I look after for the family. Seats are formed ply, they have backs, come in 2 seat heights 63cm and 74cm, and fold. When they are unfolded it clicks with a feeling like a tomb closing in a pyramid ... very solid. There is a footrest. Cost are £25 or £27 each, and they are in black and white. The ones I have were put in in about 2012-13, and I am not aware that any have been replaced. The only wear I have seen has been through the black along the edges where they are grabbed. Easy to repair (boot polish or spray paint). Recommended - and if you want posho or fashionable ones later then these would be a good interim. But do go to Ikea and sit on them. The back support may not be right for you. Ferdinand Edited May 1, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, puntloos said: My island which incorporates a seating area similar to @jack is 5.2m end to end. That's not an Island as we know it, @lizzie - that's the other side of a galley kitchen with the back wall and the end wall removed ! And that's not a quip or a dig - I think that in some ways such a large run has gone beyond being something that is walked around, because walking-around becomes an expedition. It is a different type of thing - equally valid, but different I am sure that usage patterns would be quite different from something say 2m long. F Edited May 1, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, puntloos said: It does open a whole new can of worms for me.. how much space to allocate for a kitchen.... and obviously, what could you do with the space if you don't use it as kitchen.. In my current house design I'd have to sacrifice either livingroom, or utility room space if I want a larger kitchen.. both seem better uses in my cas Your question - How then, shall we live? (stealing a quote entirely inappropriately) Well - how do you live? ? is it a useful trick for you to sketch out a design of your rooms as separates, then just remove all the walls and see if it feels different? Just leaving a wall out (esp. to separate circulation space) can be a creative move. I often shout about *hinterland* - relevant background knowledge. I have the joy that I still have many of my dad's architectural and artistic books, including fantastic stuff like 50s and 60s copies of Domus. Taking a flyer, can I recommend a book by Sir Terence Conran, which are usually available for a few ££ secondhand. There's something wonderful about practitioners from 20-50 years ago who were still active until recently. Terence Conran Kitchens: The Hub of the Home (2002) (Or similar). If it doesn't help, you have only lost £5-10, and can try something else. 5 hours ago, puntloos said: Agreed, although I must say so far this discussion thread has pushed me more towards the pro-island side. I am intruiged by the idea of a peninsula though. Perhaps it's the best of both worlds I would argue that a peninsula plan is a possibility if the flow of a kitchen was that it was a cul-de-sac - eg if there was no exit to the garden or other room at the far end, or perhaps if you have one person who overhwelmingly does the cooking. It creates more of a private domain, while still allowing interaction. We had one of those in a huge kitchen (19x15 ft ish) whilst I was growing up (70s-80s), and it was replaced with something with more open flow later on. Of course, another alternative to an Island is a movable work / storage trolley - an "island on wheels". Ikea also do these. Ferdinand Edited May 1, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janelondon Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 11 hours ago, puntloos said: Compared to..? Compared to cupboards and shelves. Difficult to reach for that plate when it's right at the back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJNewton Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 9 hours ago, janelondon said: Compared to cupboards and shelves. Difficult to reach for that plate when it's right at the back! My Dad pretty much did away with any cupboards in his kitchen renovation and whilst it was felt a bit weird grabbing a mug from a drawer to start with I've since learnt just how much extra fully-usable storage drawers give you, particularly if they are of the variety that slide all the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulhamdown Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 On 01/05/2019 at 00:57, puntloos said: Isn't granite hard to clean? Meaning, you can't use any serious cleaning liquids on it.. Well, we have no problem. We use a natural product which my wife makes up, and after a thorough rinse, the granite gets a final buff. So, fairly easy to keep clean, and doesn't take long. Still looking like new after 6 years of serious use. The home made cleaner is basically vinegar, borax, and liquid soap, and hot water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultramods Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) I am putting an island in our kitchen (it should be arriving in the next 2 weeks). I don't have experience living with it yet, however I have stayed in holiday houses with similar layout and I liked it. Our island is slightly bigger than the floor plan, it's 3100 x 1200 mm, we would have liked to go slightly longer, however 3100 mm is the longest we could get the preferred worktop in. Also the sink isn't as large as displayed on the floor plan. if you are having an island, watch that the circulation space around the island is not to cramped, especially between the island and the bank of units, as it makes it difficult for more than 1 person to be working in the kitchen at the same time, we have gone for 120 0mm between the tall bank and the island. Out island will be the only worktop in the kitchen, we went for this and the house is to be very minimal and I find having lots of worktop space means lots of appliances and knife holders etc are on display. Where as with the island this will not be possible. The island will house: pan drawer, drawer for cutlery (also utensils and knives), hob, sink, boiling water tap, dishwasher and bins (normal waste and recycling). There is no seating at the island because we don't like sitting on bar stools, also the dining table which is very close, provides seating. There will be double sockets on the sides of each end of the island, we haven't gone for a popup socket for aesthetic reasons and to make it slightly easier to clean the worktop. Also ignore some of the width dimensions shown on the island drawings, it's not 4224 or 5 * 600, it's 3100 mm. Edited May 2, 2019 by ultramods 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 @ultramods it looks great. For me it would take some getting used to the small prep and serving space, toaster, radio etc but there is a decent amount of storage. I am hoping there is somewhere for a bean-to-cup coffee machine, otherwise I will not be buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultramods Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: @ultramods it looks great. For me it would take some getting used to the small prep and serving space, toaster, radio etc but there is a decent amount of storage. I am hoping there is somewhere for a bean-to-cup coffee machine, otherwise I will not be buying. The toaster will be in the utility room, for the number of times a week we actually use it this shouldn't be a problem. The tall bank has built in single oven, combi microwave oven and bean to cup coffee machine. In terms of food prep there should be room for 2 people to work between the hob and the sink, otherwise there is more space round the other side of the island or at the sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 This is super helpful Ultramods! Interestingly, my planned living space design and available space is quite similar to yours! I have about 12x6m to work with for both. Inline some points 57 minutes ago, ultramods said: I am putting an island in our kitchen (it should be arriving in the next 2 weeks). I don't have experience living with it yet, however I have stayed in holiday houses with similar layout and I liked it. Our island is slightly bigger than the floor plan, it's 3100 x 1200 mm, we would have liked to go slightly longer, however 3100 mm is the longest we could get the preferred worktop in. Which is? I'm still very much undecided what i want in a worktop, but efficient cleaning and resilience is higher on my list than absolute prettiness... but I could be convinced. In my mind, kitchens are *forever* and not to be replaced every 10 years.. 57 minutes ago, ultramods said: Also the sink isn't as large as displayed on the floor plan. Interesting, My current idea is to have indeed a small sink in the island, but a large(ish) one in the wall. Rationale being that I want to: - Able to rinse veg while cleaning on island - Large sink is for dishes prep (cleaning grit off plates before going into washer) 57 minutes ago, ultramods said: if you are having an island, watch that the circulation space around the island is not to cramped, especially between the island and the bank of units, as it makes it difficult for more than 1 person to be working in the kitchen at the same time, we have gone for 120 0mm between the tall bank and the island. How did you pick 120? 57 minutes ago, ultramods said: Out island will be the only worktop in the kitchen, we went for this and the house is to be very minimal and I find having lots of worktop space means lots of appliances and knife holders etc are on display. Where as with the island this will not be possible. Interesting idea. I'm not sure I'd be confident enough in my kitchen philosophy to go that dramatic. My current kitchen has perhaps 8m worth of worktops (half of it used for cooking tho) and it's sufficient but not ample. Are you saying you're doing this to avoid clutter? Or are there major other benefits? 57 minutes ago, ultramods said: The island will house: pan drawer, drawer for cutlery (also utensils and knives), hob, sink, boiling water tap, dishwasher and bins (normal waste and recycling). There is no seating at the island because we don't like sitting on bar stools, also the dining table which is very close, provides seating. We were thinking of some type of sofa in a strategic place. Like this one - slightly diner style. 57 minutes ago, ultramods said: There will be double sockets on the sides of each end of the island, we haven't gone for a popup socket for aesthetic reasons and to make it slightly easier to clean the worktop. Also ignore some of the width dimensions shown on the island drawings, it's not 4224 or 5 * 600, it's 3100 mm. That's a very unusual spot for your utility room. Any reasons behind that design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultramods Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, puntloos said: Which is? I'm still very much undecided what i want in a worktop, but efficient cleaning and resilience is higher on my list than absolute prettiness... but I could be convinced. In my mind, kitchens are *forever* and not to be replaced every 10 years.. The worktop is Neolith Nero https://www.neolith.com/en/collections/nero-3/, we have chosen this as we wanted a thin quartz type solid surface worktop with no joins. This is the longest worktop we could find as close to the dark grey colour that we wanted. 48 minutes ago, puntloos said: Interesting, My current idea is to have indeed a small sink in the island, but a large(ish) one in the wall. Rationale being that I want to: - Able to rinse veg while cleaning on island - Large sink is for dishes prep (cleaning grit off plates before going into washer) 48 minutes ago, puntloos said: How did you pick 120? We don't need a huge sink as all dishes go in the dishwasher, the sink is only for rinsing and filling cups etc with hot or cold water. If anything does need to be soaked we can use the larger sink in the utility. 48 minutes ago, puntloos said: Interesting idea. I'm not sure I'd be confident enough in my kitchen philosophy to go that dramatic. My current kitchen has perhaps 8m worth of worktops (half of it used for cooking tho) and it's sufficient but not ample. Are you saying you're doing this to avoid clutter? Or are there major other benefits? We are doing it mainly for the aesthetics of everything been as minimal and flush as possible, however as a direct consequence of this it also means less space to have stuff/junk/clutter lying about. Also less clutter lying about means the house is easier to keep clean and tidy. 48 minutes ago, puntloos said: We were thinking of some type of sofa in a strategic place. Like this one - slightly diner style. We are going for the Ligne Roset Togo in Grey, I wanted a funkier colour, however wife wouldn't let me https://www.ligne-roset.com/uk/modele/living/upholstery/togo/37 The sofa has got slightly larger compared to the one on the plan, it will be a kind-of U shape made up of a 2 seater, corner, 3 seater, corner, one seater and foot stool. 48 minutes ago, puntloos said: That's a very unusual spot for your utility room. Any reasons behind that design? The utility, is very close to the kitchen and garage and to an exterior door. With it's current position it still gets natural day light. The utility is also sort of hidden away and far(ish) away from living areas. Also in terms of fitting everything into the house, the utility size, shape and position were less important than some of the other space. However having said that I am really happy with the utility room. The cupboard in the utility is not 1200mm deep, so it's now a walk in cupboard, leaving 3000 for a single run of worktop. Photo was taken before the end partition was erected. The door will be positioned to the left, meaning there will still be lots of natural light. Also I took this photo standing inside the 1200 mm deep cupboard. Edited May 2, 2019 by ultramods 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moira Niedzwiecka Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I am going for sapienstone worktops. Porcelain & non scratch, non porous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Moira Niedzwiecka said: I am going for sapienstone worktops. Porcelain & non scratch, non porous Wow that's a good tip, it looks beautiful... ... and the price? (I bet this is the problem ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moira Niedzwiecka Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 It is really nice. I found it at Grand Designs last November at NEC. I was surprised but it was cheaper than granite, quartz, corian etc. The liked the 12mm one, nice & sleek & contemporary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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