AnonymousBosch

Noggin ', nogging, dwang, nog: be gentle with me....

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........ because I've never done this before : a dwang virgin in fact. And this so basic, it's embarrassing. 

 

First floor board ends between two joists. I need to put a nogging in to support the ends, I think. 

 

Does the edge of the nogging have to be in line with the edge of the board ( i.e. 580mm from the other edge) , or can it be placed anywhere between the top chords of the adjacent joists? (POSIs fitted) as long as it supports the fee end(s) of the floor board?

 

 

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Are the boards tongue and groove? If they are, nothing needed for most. We fitted 22mm T&G and was no need to support. 

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Just now, jamiehamy said:

Are the boards tongue and groove? [...]

 

Yes, 22mm, T+G on 400 centres (or less sometimes)

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You are talking about the first run of boards yes?

 

Boards are 2400mm long and joists are on 400 centres yes?

 

Why do any of the joints of the first run have to miss a joist?  Cut one end where it abuts a wall so the joint lands on a joist. Job done.

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No noggins required if T&G, but you should be able to work it so you are ending on a joist anyway e.g 400, 800, 1200, 1600, 2000, 2400

I might make an exception if it was a major traffic point e.g first step off the stairs at the top of a landing.

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14 minutes ago, ProDave said:

[...] Cut one end where it abuts a wall so the joint lands on a joist. Job done.

 

You mean waste some?

 

Well, I'm shocked. My outrage is not at you Dave, its at my particularly stupid stupidity.  

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17 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

You mean waste some?

 

Well, I'm shocked. My outrage is not at you Dave, its at my particularly stupid stupidity.  

 

Imo, a tongue against the wall looks a bit rough. Cut edges much better. 

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No dwangs needed then. But unless the room and ALL the joists are exactly 400 or 600 centres, then you'll always have joins mid span (starting at the end of the first run). So don't worry about it, once the next run goes in, that first join will be firm. I agree with gluing and screwing. Glue the join, glue the joist. And would strongly recommend Spax for this job. If you can. 

 

You are running the boards at right angles to the joists? Just checking, no harm. 

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Start with Groove/Groove against the wall and work off that. That leaves a tongue on both edges, looks neater by the wall and it’s easier to stand a board up to put a thin bead of D4 into a groove when it’s upright. 

 

Work to the end, lay a spare full board face up over the last one laid, another on top but butted to the wall. Scribe a line on the one that is on top of the last fitted one, and that’s your cut line. Now take the spare bit, go back to the beginning of the new row and use it to start again as long as it goes over a minimum of 2 joists. 

 

Glue, rinse, repeat ... 

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I'm with dave cut it back so the tongue lands on a joist. 

Also measure the width of the room before you start to make sure you don't end up with a silly rip when you get to the other side 

We don't generally bother with noggins on lose ends but if you wanted to I would put it in the middle of the board

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57 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

You mean waste some?

 

Well, I'm shocked. My outrage is not at you Dave, its at my particularly stupid stupidity.  

Well that depends. It would go on the "might come in useful" stack.  you might find you can use it as the first or last bit of the next run.

 

Or like me you will have lots of bits left to make shelves in a shed or garage.

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51 minutes ago, Onoff said:

[...]

Cut edges much better. 

 

I'll do that, I agree...

16 minutes ago, Construction Channel said:

I'm with dave cut it back so the tongue lands on a joist. 

Also measure the width of the room before you start to make sure you don't end up with a silly rip when you get to the other side 

We don't generally bother with noggins on lose ends but if you wanted to I would put it in the middle of the board

 

Well, that settles it then.

Did a drawing to try and get my head round it.....

1975126727_flooringlayout(1).thumb.jpeg.62c0f38d8a440b572a0a9cd46d2a7d88.jpeg

 

29 minutes ago, PeterW said:

[...]

  • Work to the end,
  • lay a spare full board face up over the last one laid (A),
  • another on top but butted to the wall (B).
  • Scribe a line on the one that is on top of the last fitted one (B), and that’s your cut line. 
  • NOW  CUT IT
  • Now take the spare bit,
  • go back to the beginning of the new row and
  • use it to start again as long as it goes over a minimum of 2 joists. 

[...] 

 

You assume some intelligence on my part Pete. I'll try this with a spare bit of batten : it'll go click when I do that

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looks fine to me, 200mm is acceptable, you could rip 100mm off the first run to make the last board a bit wider but i wouldn't say its necessary, its when you end up with a little 60mm bit that you wish you had started differently :) 

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Not sure if anyone has mentioned it 

Dont forget to leave a 15 mil gap around the perimeter 

Lots of glue on top of the joists 

 

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27 minutes ago, nod said:

[...]

Dont forget to leave a 15 mil gap around the perimeter 

[...]

 

Always as well to check. I've heard 10mm.... 

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31 minutes ago, nod said:

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it 

Dont forget to leave a 15 mil gap around the perimeter 

Lots of glue on top of the joists 

 

 

Is that for getting the boards to fit i.e. wriggle room? Or expansion?

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Expansion - I am told.

I'm also told that I should fit the boards after they have been in the house for a while - to acclimatise.  

Like a fine wine, boards need to 'breathe'  😳

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3 hours ago, jamiehamy said:

[...]

And would strongly recommend Spax for this job.

[...]

 

20190226_072244.thumb.jpg.cee9f09171b0ce2c5d70e4bde0007196.jpg

 

Nuff said lads?

 

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4 hours ago, nod said:

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it 

Dont forget to leave a 15 mil gap around the perimeter 

Lots of glue on top of the joists 

 

i agree when the boards are not glued down, with the boards glued with d4, how much are they going to expand? just something that came to mind.

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4 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

Is that for getting the boards to fit i.e. wriggle room? Or expansion?

 

bit of both really, technically I suppose it's for expansion, but physically you'll need it to get the last board in. it also stops a potential squeak if there is any deflection in the floor and they were hard against a timber wall

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2 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

20190226_072244.thumb.jpg.cee9f09171b0ce2c5d70e4bde0007196.jpg

 

Nuff said lads?

 

 

I take it you have flappy pockets on your work trousers?

 

I use one of these to get over the issue of emptying pockets for the dreaded "wash",  its no substitute for a proper nail bag but they're good for the everyday stuff like what you appear to have accumulated, (you seem to be missing a small adjustable wide mouth spanner and a small multitool (leatherman ect,) :) )

 

https://www.engelbert-strauss.co.uk/workwear-accessories/work-bag-e-s-motion-3400460-6315710-1.html

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12 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

Always as well to check. I've heard 10mm.... 

If you put them 25 mil away from the wall the gap will still cover with the plaster The main reason is sound will carry right around your house You don’t nead a uniform gap If you use 10 mil as a minimum You find the gap will increase a decrease as you go 

Unless the blockwork is absolutely true 

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