Is the whole building industry overpaid?

[PeterW]

@Big Neil for reference I've just checked an email I got this morning. Given most of the perk leases are around 10% of salary, this is from the £350-450 band from Nationwide (other lease companies are available...)

 

Ford Mondeo Vignale Estate 2.0TDCi - £292

BMW X1 sDrive 1.8d - £293

Toyota Rav4 2.5VVTi Hybrid - £293

Mercedes C Class C200AMG - £294

BMW 4 Series Convertible 420i M-Sport - £294

Renault Zoe 80Kw Signature - £294

Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0 TB Super - £295

BMW i3 125Kw Lodge - £295

Hyundai i30N 2.0T GDI - £299

BMW 520d M Sport - £300

Audi Q3 35 TFSI S Line - £303

Jaguar XF 2.0d R-Sport - £304

Renault Scenic 1.3 TCE 140 Play - £308

Range Rover Evoque 2.0D - £312

Nissan Leaf N-Connecta - £314

 

 

So if you look at that list and compare to a Ford Focus at £256 from the same list... you can see why there is little uptake on the Nissan Leaf when for £20 less your planning officer can have a BMW 420i M-Sport Convertible..!

 

 

[Big Neil]

ahhh yes - good example thanks. Bloody hell an Evoque at 2 quid less than a leaf. I mean I'd still have the leaf personally all other things being equal, but I can certainly see why people make the choice.

[ProDave]

I suspect most of these modern "expensive" cars are not owned, but leased.  Ask yourself how many car adverts tell you how much the car is to BUY?  not many. Most tell you how much it is per month, with a lot of very small print about the up front and end of lease charges to weasle more money out of you.

 

I operate at the other end of the spectrum, that some call "bangernomics"  I paid in full outright for my present car, a sum that equates to about a years rental of one of these modern things.  It is just coming up to 2 years since I bought this car, so already it has cost me half the rental of a new one.  I expect to own it for many more years, so it's cost will be a tiny fraction of leasing a new car.

 

On the other hand, I don't suppose many people see me arrive and think "he must be rich" 

[epsilonGreedy]

28 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I operate at the other end of the spectrum, that some call "bangernomics"  I paid in full outright for my present car, a sum that equates to about a years rental of one of these modern things.  It is just coming up to 2 years since I bought this car, so already it has cost me half the rental of a new one.  I expect to own it for many more years, so it's cost will be a tiny fraction of leasing a new car.

 

 

That is also my approach to funding a vehicle, I have been a cash purchaser of cars since 1991. My best buy was a fleet disposal VW Passat at auction.

 

With such a clear swing towards leasing and other "just add fuel" retail deals I suspect resale prices must be depressed for 2 and 3 year old vehicles which these days must translate to £10k at auction.

[newhome]

2 hours ago, PeterW said:

Range Rover Evoque 2.0D - £312

 

Cripes! Probably explains why the office car park is like a parking lot for Evoques. Seems to be the ‘in’ car at the mo alongside the BMWs, Mercs etc that have long been popular. I could have an Evoque at that money and still have a decent amount paid in cash for not reaching my car allowance! ? I take the whole lot as cash so never look at the company car options as I would rather have my own vehicle. 

 

Not planning as I never saw anyone from there but the BC guy from the council drives a tiny little car. Think it was a Micra or similar. 

 

Our groundworker drove a variety of restored classic cars when not in his van and has retired to the Bahamas. 

[EverHopefull]

The allowance for the car opens up a world of choice but BIK is where the real deal is won or lost in my book.

I work with a guy who has chosen a Discovery Sport as a company chariot and he still cannot see why his take home pay is hammered as it is because of the percentage charge on the Co2 against forecourt price! ?

[newhome]

9 minutes ago, EverHopefull said:

The allowance for the car opens up a world of choice but BIK is where the real deal is won or lost in my book.

 

Yep, which is why the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is popular (maybe a bit less so now) as the BIK was low even if someone decided never to charge it. 

[scottishjohn]

because of BIK --I dont, run through my biz -at all 

I bought a new  car --and run it private 

all depends on your circumstances  and  if you are into "street cred"

my 9year old c-crosser is going fine 

spent nothing on it but tyres +brakes +servicing

so due to value it will run  till either it dies or I do 

both will be consigned to landfill  at that point .

 

If a customer asks me the  best +cheapest way to run a car i tell them this 

buy a new one or under year old -- buy  not lease 

start a separate bank account --for car expense once you have paid it off 

then and this is the important bit -- keep putting 50% of car payments in each month and run the car from that account

by the time it is getting seedy --7 + years old you will have enough money in that account to go buy a another new one  

don,t work if you into "street cred" 

car purchase is either head or heart  ,always has been .

 by that time they may have really viable electric  car ,that don,t cost a fortune 

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by scottishjohn

[Jeremy Harris]

30 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

Yep, which is why the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is popular (maybe a bit less so now) as the BIK was low even if someone decided never to charge it. 

 

I believe this loophole is about to be, maybe has been, closed, as loads of PHEVs were being purchased solely to get the low BIK, then never being plugged in.  I looked at a 2 year old Prius Plug-in before Christmas, that had done about 20,000 miles, yet when I flicked through the dash display I found it hadn't been charged since new.  It turned out it was an ex-lease car, so presumably there was no incentive for the previous "owner" to ever charge it.

 

On the subject of ex-lease cars, since the V5 changed to not show the previous owner, plus the switch to cars having no service record book (or even handbook) it's now a bit of a faff to get the history of a car, without having to pay for it.  I don't mind buying an ex-lease car, but would like to know who the previous owner was.

[Wagas]

I'd say so... professional fees seem to be huge. £3,500 for building reg plans + £1250 structural engineer for a not very fancy house. This is after you've already spent thousands on plans to obtain planning permission. £700 to test soil?? You can test blood for a tenth of that! £1,000 for someone to walk around for 30 mins looking for bats and then supply a copy and paste report saying there aren't any. It's one long gravy train.

 

Had a guy quote to move a 30m post and rail fence, no concrete involved in the posts just pull up old fence and position it somewhere else. He told me it was a days work and wanted £550. So no materials and he wants £550. People must be paying these fees because these people are booked up weeks or months in advance.

[ToughButterCup]

I begrudge nobody their income.  I don't have to pay it if I don't like it. 

 

And in the case of three substantial invoices, where the pay was not deserved or worse - their services actively hindered the build, I paid either nothing or a small percentage. In the case of of one job were a  percentage was paid , I  based the amount on the rates published in the current version of SPONS with an appropriate multiplier for the North West, (0.96 of Outer London rates).

[Gone West]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

I looked at a 2 year old Prius Plug-in before Christmas, that had done about 20,000 miles, yet when I flicked through the dash display I found it hadn't been charged since new.  It turned out it was an ex-lease car, so presumably there was no incentive for the previous "owner" to ever charge it.

Would the fact that it had never been charged in those two years mean that the battery pack would be in a worse or better condition than if it had been used.

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, PeterStarck said:

Would the fact that it had never been charged in those two years mean that the battery pack would be in a worse or better condition than if it had been used.

 

Hard to say.  The pack would probably have been in better condition, as it would only have been charged as a part of the hybrid mode, by the car, so the depth of charge and discharge would have been heavily limited. 

 

My last Prius Plug-in didn't seem to suffer any degradation at all over the five years I had it, though, after ~40,000 miles it was still delivering much the same EV range as it was when I bought it, despite having been charged twice a day every weekday, plus at least once every weekend.

 

It seems that EV and PHEV battery packs seem to be remarkably reliable, as failures seem pretty rare, and degradation is lower than I would have expected it to be.  One reason may be that EV battery packs don't get cycled as much as other stuff with lithium batteries.  I find that I'm only charging the i3 once a week, if that, so it sees a fair bit less cycling than something like a modern mobile phone.

[epsilonGreedy]

On 22/02/2019 at 16:21, recoveringacademic said:

I begrudge nobody their income.  I don't have to pay it if I don't like it. 

 

 

Having frequented this forum for a year I reckon the most painful charges originate from the clipboard-hugging tickbox sector of the building industry who are often able to charge what they like because they are empowered by legislation or monopoly.

[iSelfBuild]

Does anyone have a copy of SPONS that I can take a look at? I'm sure there was an electronic copy floating around on eBuild that I once had.