BMcN Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Has anyone used GSE in roof system? It is not clear in the manual where to pass the cables through. I presume you can just drill a hole anywhere in the centre of the mount, as this should be a dry area, and pass the cable through? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Yes, we have the GSE system. No need to drill any holes anywhere for cables, they run into the big hole in the centre and then out under the battens at either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMcN Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 5 hours ago, JSHarris said: Yes, we have the GSE system. No need to drill any holes anywhere for cables, they run into the big hole in the centre and then out under the battens at either side. Sorry I just screenshotted that from the manual to show the centre. I wasn't suggesting drilling the GSE mount. Mine are mounted on sarking as we are in Scotland, so unable to run cables under the straps/battens. I presume for me I will need to just run each set of connectors through the sarking in the centre of every mount and do the connections inside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, BMcN said: Sorry I just screenshotted that from the manual to show the centre. I wasn't suggesting drilling the GSE mount. Mine are mounted on sarking as we are in Scotland, so unable to run cables under the straps/battens. I presume for me I will need to just run each set of connectors through the sarking in the centre of every mount and do the connections inside? How are you providing the essential ventilation under the panels? The panels need cooling, from air flow underneath them, hence the need to raise them on battens fitted to counterbattens, as shown in that screen shot (which is exactly as ours are fitted). We also have sarking, but that's overlaid with counterbattens that run along the line of each rafter, then battens to which the frames and slates are fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMcN Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 Both wagner and midsummer said that the mounts could be fixed directly to the sarking. It is a garage roof so will never be a warm roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, BMcN said: Both wagner and midsummer said that the mounts could be fixed directly to the sarking. It is a garage roof so will never be a warm roof. I think its more for ventilation under the panels. Keeping the panels cool I believe improves efficiency too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 We installed gse in roof on diy basis. We made up extensions and looped them into the house with a connection in the house. This will allow us to fault find and bypass a panel if needed in future very easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 With respect to the UK resellers, I'd suggest that they aren't aware of the essential requirement to provide ventilation under all PV panels and I'd question how much real world experience they have with installing in-roof PV systems. It doesn't matter whether the underlying roof is warm or cold, as the heat comes from the sun shining on the panels. They can easily reach temperatures of 50 deg C plus in bright sun, and that heat needs to be got rid of, and the way all PV panels are designed is for over-heating to be alleviated by free air ventilation under the panels. That's why both Easyroof and GSE show the same fixing method for the in-roof frames, with spaces above the sarking provided by counterbattens to allow the essential ventilation. The eaves and ridge ridge also need to be ventilated to allow air to flow up the roof behind the panels. The main problem is that the panels will have a much reduced output if they run hot, plus the reliability may be impacted, too. Anything you can do to aid the cooling of the panels will improve both performance and reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Neil Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Obviously as the forum dunce i'm likely to be chastised for this, but would a peltier plate system work for cooling, where the warm side could be in the void under the panel, with the whole void being fan-assist ducted out of said void, to help reduce temps. Could this have the dual effect of keeping the panels cooler therefore the efficiency higher, whilst also giving a sort of warm layer of air to assist interior temperature by 'insulating' the roof with a layer of warm air? Also - are easyroof and GSE the only/best in roof systems? Struggling to find any others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Big Neil said: Obviously as the forum dunce i'm likely to be chastised for this, but would a peltier plate system work for cooling, where the warm side could be in the void under the panel, with the whole void being fan-assist ducted out of said void, to help reduce temps. Could this have the dual effect of keeping the panels cooler therefore the efficiency higher, whilst also giving a sort of warm layer of air to assist interior temperature by 'insulating' the roof with a layer of warm air? Also - are easyroof and GSE the only/best in roof systems? Struggling to find any others There are a couple of popular in-roof systems, GSE and EasyRoof, as you've found. I've not heard of any others unfortunately. Peltier devices aren't very efficient at pumping heat, only a few percent, which means that there would be a great deal more heat that needs to be got rid of from the hot side of the Peltier element, making the problem of cooling a great deal worse. The Peltier devices would also use a lot of the power generated by the panel, far more than would be gained from any cooling effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Neil Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Fair play @JSHarris. Is there a system which allows the two sides n a system LIKE this, to be seperate, where you could use the hot side for something - heating water for example - and then the cool side be put elsewhere? Would some sort of heat exchanger system work, a bit like the product as in the link below, albeit under the panels instead of on top of a roof/external surface. https://www.thealternativeenergycompany.co.nz/products/water-heating/retrofit-system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Davies Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Yes, there was a fad for combined PV/solar thermal panels a few years ago. Not sure how many actually used heat pumps, which seems the obvious step for low-grade heat like this. AFAIK, they've never really caught on, I assume because the cost of PV came down enough that it just wasn't worth the hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Neil Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Hello @Ed Davies. I was thinking more in terms of keeping the PV systems cool to maintain efficiency - particularly on warmer days, and I hadn't considered a combined [panel, although i suppose that actually makes sense. I'd love to see one. A big old heat-sink on the back with a piping system to hold an antifreeze and then a heat pump. Sort of like a GSHP but on a roof - a RSHP if you will!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundtuit Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 13 hours ago, Big Neil said: Also - are easyroof and GSE the only/best in roof systems? Struggling to find any others Viridian Solar are worth a look. We've got a 4kw Clearline Fusion system; can't comment on the finer points of performance, but it looks good and I only had to run the ashp about half a dozen times for dhw between June and September last year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 On 19/02/2019 at 10:06, JSHarris said: There are a couple of popular in-roof systems, GSE and EasyRoof, as you've found. I've not heard of any others unfortunately. .... Bit late to the thread but GB-Sol RIS is the other one I know. AIUI the unique thing with these is, as they manufacturer their own panels they can specify them to fill to any shape and dimensions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 On 25/01/2019 at 22:41, Alexphd1 said: We installed gse in roof on diy basis. We made up extensions and looped them into the house with a connection in the house. This will allow us to fault find and bypass a panel if needed in future very easily. I'm interested in doing something similar. But wondering how you made all the connections internally look neat and tidy. Any chance you have a photo or two please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 On 25/01/2019 at 22:41, Alexphd1 said: We installed gse in roof on diy basis. We made up extensions and looped them into the house with a connection in the house. This will allow us to fault find and bypass a panel if needed in future very easily. I'm still considering this approach. Can anyone suggest a suitable connection box to bring 10 panels together in series. The only specific PV boxes I can find are combiner boxes which bring multiple strings together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, willbish said: I'm still considering this approach. Can anyone suggest a suitable connection box to bring 10 panels together in series. The only specific PV boxes I can find are combiner boxes which bring multiple strings together What does it need, a gland in from one panel and a gland out to the next? Then a couple of suitably rated 2 terminal connector blocks? Plenty of hinged abs enclosures similar on the bay. http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=312831371539&category=42886&pm=1&ds=0&t=1572852738000&ver=0 Could you I wonder incorporate a small volt meter in each? Maybe then a couple of 3 terminal blocks instead of 2. In/out/meter + and in/out/meter negative. I'd put a small travel case type padlock on each. (I know nothing btw about pv). Edit: Sorry a bit lost, one box is it you want or multiple boxes, one between each panel in series? Edited December 30, 2019 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 normally you just hook the +ve MC4 connector from one panel directly to the -ve MC4 on the next panel, no junction box needed. Even if doing it inside the building I'd do the same to avoid lots of extra cable length looping back to a single point? Is it an additional risk of electric shock if doing all the connections indoors? Also, fwiw, my contractor had some grumble about bad experience bringing each panel connection inside (in that instance for micro inverters) causing a lot of extra faff from risks of air leakage through all the penetrations of the airtight envelope. We decided to put the DC cable, inverter and connection to AC (meter) all outside the airtight boundary for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Onoff said: Sorry a bit lost, one box is it you want or multiple boxes, one between each panel in series? Thought this one might be up your street @Onoff Im imagining one box, located inside the loft space. 10 panels coming in (10+ & 10- wires) and then two output wires. Will all be live DC so I think it would need some safety stickers on the front. 1 hour ago, joth said: normally you just hook the +ve MC4 connector from one panel directly to the -ve MC4 on the next panel, no junction box needed. Even if doing it inside the building I'd do the same to avoid lots of extra cable length looping back to a single point? Is it an additional risk of electric shock if doing all the connections indoors? Also, fwiw, my contractor had some grumble about bad experience bringing each panel connection inside (in that instance for micro inverters) causing a lot of extra faff from risks of air leakage through all the penetrations of the airtight envelope. We decided to put the DC cable, inverter and connection to AC (meter) all outside the airtight boundary for that reason. I agree it is going to require a lot of extra cable length and faff but possibly worth it to be able to isolate individual faulty panels in the future. My loft space is vented so there is no need for extra work around airtightness 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 daisy-chained panels could be linked out just with a short M-F cable. Personally I'd be more worried about the resistance of all your extra cabling and connections if bringing all the DC lines to a single point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Sorry missed the original question willbish. On holiday ⛷ so had a few beers so might not make 100% sense but still only my 2p's. If your pv is on roof keep simple no need to cable into house. If your using in roof pv like gse or easy roof then good solution to take cable into easily accessible space ie loft. This is not a normal concept & will be taking with a suction of breath through teeth with a big exhale from a pv installer. My reasoning behind this was from more a matience point of few ie if one panel went down I could identify this panel and either bypass or change panel on roof ( I already known faulty panel before guy goes on roof) . As for the actual job It was not a major pretty job I tried to pre make Male female connections through mlcp 12mm with the green air teigntness tape already on the mlcp and it was a mess. Will need to re do the green tape. I don't understand the box you are speaking about unless cant get easy access to the tails then a remote box might work. Keep it simple and simple is usually cheapest. Just 2 add in (through many beers and irish coffees) i ain't no pv expert but did a crash basic course with the idea to install them back in the day when it was a big money 4 a installation.... Will add in photos when I get home but not much to see, just some mc4 connectors sticking out the insulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbish Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 @Alexphd1 Thanks, hope your head is not in a shed this morning! I'm having an in roof system and a vented loft space so poking the cables in is not a problem. I would like to avoid a mass of connectors and am looking for a solution to make things look tidy. Something like this (fundamental error in the wiring! but hopefully you get the gist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) The captive fly lead on the back of each panel already has a connector crimped onto it (on every panel I've seen). So you'll need to connect each of those to an extension to your junction box. So net result is you'll have double the number of connections (and connectors) with your plan vs just daisy chaining them in the normal way. That's before counting the additional connections inside the junction box. Edited December 31, 2019 by joth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) Apart from installation damage, has anyone every had a PV module break? I have seen one solar slate install that got hit by lightening, but that is the only one I know off. Edited December 31, 2019 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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