No deal Brexit impact

[Jeremy Harris]

16 minutes ago, Onoff said:

I think the model S is much more a knicker dropper in terms of looks that the 3.

 

The S to me says low slung coupe. The 3 is a bit more squat ans family compact looking. Only my opinion, don't get me wrong I'd happily have either! 

 

Maybe Tesla should think about slide in drive trains and power packs for other makes...

 

 

 

You're right, but I think the Model 3 was intended to fit into the mid-sized saloon category and be a car aimed for a bigger market than just those looking for performance.  Performance is really a bit of an accidental side effect of having an electric drive train, even the budget end EVs are pretty quick when compared to conventional cars.  Tesla seem to have hit the spot with the Model 3, as they are selling like hot cakes all around the world.  I suspect the Model Y may well be even more popular when it comes out, just because it's effectively the hatchback version of the Model 3, and hatchbacks seem to be more popular here than saloons (I'd have rather had a hatchback, TBH).

 

Being a bit mundane looking has made the Model 3 appeal to people who wouldn't be seen dead driving something like an RS4, though.  Makes it a bit of a sleeper, as there are still a few boy racers around who don't quite understand what the discreet "Dual Motor" badge on the boot lid really means.  If someone wants a real performance car, one that looks as fast as it is (0-60mph in 1.9s, 250mph top speed, 8.8s quarter mile) then they just need to wait for the new Roadster.

 

 

[K78]

8 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

You're right, but I think the Model 3 was intended to fit into the mid-sized saloon category and be a car aimed for a bigger market than just those looking for performance.  Performance is really a bit of an accidental side effect of having an electric drive train, even the budget end EVs are pretty quick when compared to conventional cars.  Tesla seem to have hit the spot with the Model 3, as they are selling like hot cakes all around the world.  I suspect the Model Y may well be even more popular when it comes out, just because it's effectively the hatchback version of the Model 3, and hatchbacks seem to be more popular here than saloons (I'd have rather had a hatchback, TBH).

 

Being a bit mundane looking has made the Model 3 appeal to people who wouldn't be seen dead driving something like an RS4, though.  Makes it a bit of a sleeper, as there are still a few boy racers around who don't quite understand what the discreet "Dual Motor" badge on the boot lid really means.  If someone wants a real performance car, one that looks as fast as it is (0-60mph in 1.9s, 250mph top speed, 8.8s quarter mile) then they just need to wait for the new Roadster.

 

 

 

How many people wouldn’t be seen dead in a rs4? It’s a understated estate with a beautiful interior and all the toys you could want?

 

I know many who would not be seen dead in a Tesla. They look like jelly moulds and the interior plastics are fisher-price quality.
 

I’m not impressed by a cheap Chinese tablet replacing all my switchgear either. 
 

Many people are waiting for the roadster. They have been for a long time, and will be waiting even longer........if it ever appears. If it does,  it still looks like a jelly mould. 

 

The performance claims are probably similar to the smash proof glass in the cybertruck. The cybertruck will never make production. Tesla can put any body on their skateboard chassis for a unveil. 
 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by K78

[epsilonGreedy]

42 minutes ago, K78 said:

I don’t care what anyone says. Autopilot, no matter how good is dangerous. 
 

 

I am more concerned about the dangerous human drivers I encounter on the roads each day.

[K78]

I’m not trying to be argumentative. I just think the whole electric car thing is premature. Some of the crap being released (not tesla) won’t do 60 miles on a full charge in cold weather. 
 

It will be a long time before we can all feasibly drive electric cars. 

[K78]

2 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

I am more concerned about the dangerous human drivers I encounter on the roads each day.

You shouldn’t be. They are 100% accountable for their actions and accidents. 
 

We can’t do anything about idiot drivers other than ban them. 

[Jeremy Harris]

48 minutes ago, K78 said:

How many people wouldn’t be seen dead in a rs4? It’s a understated estate with a beautiful interior and all the toys you could want?

 

I know many who would not be seen dead in a Tesla. They look like jelly moulds and the interior plastics are fisher-price quality.
 

I’m not impressed by a cheap Chinese tablet replacing all my switchgear either. 
 

Many people are waiting for the roadster. They have been for a long time, and will be waiting even longer........if it ever appears. If it does,  it still looks like a jelly mould. 

 

The performance claims are probably similar to the smash proof glass in the cybertruck. The cybertruck will never make production. Tesla can put any body on their skateboard chassis for a unveil. 
 

 

 

I really dislike the interior of the RS4, it's massively over-complex, with a mish-mash of controls scattered all over the place and a small central screen that looks as if it's been tacked on as an afterthought

 

Not sure what Tesla models you are referring to.  The interior of my Model 3 easily beats the quality of the interior of any BMW or Mercedes I've owned, really solid, decent quality real wood and materials etc.  The 15" screen is not "a cheap Chinese tablet", it's made by LG in South Korea as it happens, and seems to be of a similar quality to something like an iPad screen.

 

I get you hate Teslas, which is fine, but using false information just to diss them seems a but unnecessary. 

[Jeremy Harris]

20 minutes ago, K78 said:

I’m not trying to be argumentative. I just think the whole electric car thing is premature. Some of the crap being released (not tesla) won’t do 60 miles on a full charge in cold weather. 
 

It will be a long time before we can all feasibly drive electric cars. 

 

What current EV won't do 60 miles in cold weather, out of interest?

 

The only one I'm aware of is the Smart EQ,  which was fairly and squarely aimed at being just a tiny city car.

[gc100]

I'm a classic petrol head, but EVs are the way forward no question. The biggest challenge to mass adoption is not the interior, how it looks, how it drives, performance, styling, or comfort levels. Its the infrastructure to charge them, especially on conventional terraced streets and flats. I also wonder whether there is enough Lithium and rare elements needed. Its going to be a slow long journey on that front IMO. The car is the easy bit.

 

[epsilonGreedy]

34 minutes ago, K78 said:

We can’t do anything about idiot drivers other than ban them. 

 

 

We could replace them with more competent AI autopilots.

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, epsilonGreedy said:

 

We could replace them with more competent AI autopilots.

 

 

Just something that detects when mobile 'phones are being used and disables the car might be a start.  The number of people that still drive around with a 'phone in their hand, or even try to text whilst driving, still seems to be pretty high.  It seems that the risk of getting caught by the police is very small, based on the number of drivers around here that use their 'phones like this pretty regularly.

[Temp]

Anyone making something like an electric S-Max that you can put three bikes inside? 

[Jeremy Harris]

4 minutes ago, Temp said:

Anyone making something like an electric S-Max that you can put three bikes inside? 

 

 

Not yet, I'm afraid.  The Model Y is a bit too small I think, and the other options would be a fair bit bigger (and a lot more expensive).  There's a list of all EVs here: https://ev-database.uk/

[K78]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

I really dislike the interior of the RS4, it's massively over-complex, with a mish-mash of controls scattered all over the place and a small central screen that looks as if it's been tacked on as an afterthought

 

Not sure what Tesla models you are referring to.  The interior of my Model 3 easily beats the quality of the interior of any BMW or Mercedes I've owned, really solid, decent quality real wood and materials etc.  The 15" screen is not "a cheap Chinese tablet", it's made by LG in South Korea as it happens, and seems to be of a similar quality to something like an iPad screen.

 

I get you hate Teslas, which is fine, but using false information just to diss them seems a but unnecessary. 

I don’t hate Tesla’s. I like Elon. I just think the build is (or should say was?) shoddy and they are over priced.
 

Stunts like the cybertruck don’t help their reputation. If he was serious about producing them, the deposit wouldn’t be so ridiculously low. 
 

The model s I drove was nearly 3 years old. It had rattles everywhere and wasn’t ageing well. It was all very “plasticky”
 

The only other Tesla I’ve been in is a model x. Again the interior build was awful for such an expensive car. This is the same opinion as the owner. 
 

Even if it is a iPad quality tablet. They are still cheaper than the switchgear and dials they replace. That isn’t a Tesla specific gripe. Mercedes wanted £1500 for slightly larger screens when I was thinking of buying a new daily a few months back. The standard 7” looked awful. 
 

They sell the screens as a upgrade when they are a cost saver for them. I prefer analogue dials. Porsche have the perfect mix. 
 

Maybe the model 3 is better built? It is at a decent price point too. So it is unfair to compare them with much more expensive cars like I did with the s and x. No doubt it is the best electric car at a sensible price.  
 

I have to disagree about Audi interiors. They are by far the best of any manufacturer (super expensive stuff excluded). The new rs6 and rsq8 have amazing interiors. 
 

I wasn’t using false information. The 2 Tesla’s I’ve been in had poor plastics and were not put together very well. Overall build quality was far from premium.

 

I wrongly assumed the tablets were Chinese. Even iPhones are made in China. 
 

I have never been in a model 3. Seen a few on the road. The dual motor has interesting performance figures but I’m not a fan of the look of the car. Or any Tesla tbh. 
 

Taycan is interesting, but I could never afford one. 

‘When I put “Tesla poor” into google. Build quality was the top suggestion. Seems the model 3 is better, but early cars are bad. Awful now they are a few years old. 
 

https://www.hotcars.com/glaring-problems-with-teslas-everyone-just-ignores/

Edited February 26, 2020 by K78

[Temp]

11 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

 

Not yet, I'm afraid.  The Model Y is a bit too small I think, and the other options would be a fair bit bigger (and a lot more expensive).  There's a list of all EVs here: https://ev-database.uk/

 

Great website, lets you search by a bunch of different things. Thanks.

[Jeremy Harris]

32 minutes ago, K78 said:

‘When I put “Tesla poor” into google. Build quality was the top suggestion. Seems the model 3 is better, but early cars are bad. Awful now they are a few years old. 
 

 

I've owned three BMWs, a Mercedes, four Toyotas, two Mitsubishis, a Jaguar (and a few others makes, years ago).  The worst interiors were the Toyotas and the Mitsubishis, followed closely by the Jag.  The best so far is the Model 3.  Second best was the Mercedes SLK.  The older BMWs were OK, the last one was not only dire, with rattles coming from everywhere, but BMW service was simply appalling.  All I can say is that the Model 3 feels solid, has absolutely no rattles, seems to be very well put together and is significantly better than any other car I've looked at recently in the same price bracket.

[Onoff]

26 minutes ago, K78 said:

When I put “Tesla poor” into google.

 

Surprised my name didn't come up as in too poor to buy a Tesla! ?

[Dreadnaught]

Of Teslas, I have heard some say that the seats are particularly comfy. @Jeremy Harris do you find yourself ensconced particularly comfortably in yours?

[K78]

21 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said:

 

I've owned three BMWs, a Mercedes, four Toyotas, two Mitsubishis, a Jaguar (and a few others makes, years ago).  The worst interiors were the Toyotas and the Mitsubishis, followed closely by the Jag.  The best so far is the Model 3.  Second best was the Mercedes SLK.  The older BMWs were OK, the last one was not only dire, with rattles coming from everywhere, but BMW service was simply appalling.  All I can say is that the Model 3 feels solid, has absolutely no rattles, seems to be very well put together and is significantly better than any other car I've looked at recently in the same price bracket.

BMW have lost the plot. Extended warranty on m3/4/5 once they have 60k miles is nearly £5k a year. They clearly don’t have faith in their twin turbo engines. 
 

Build quality was awful on the f generation cars. As you say rattles everywhere, but it has improved massively in the new 1 and 5 series. I think they had slot of owners reject new cars due to rattles and hopefully learnt from that. Merc did a similar thing from late 90’s to 2007. Awful build that cost them sales and customers. 
 

No doubt the model 3 is a good car. Praise is universal. But the S and X are well known for awful build quality.

[Jeremy Harris]

10 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said:

Of Teslas, I have heard some say that the seats are particularly comfy. @Jeremy Harris do you find yourself ensconced particularly comfortably in yours?

 

 

It was the first thing my wife commented on, she reckons it has the most comfortable seats of any car I've owned since the Jag I had back in the early 1990's.  The seats and performance were about the only good thing about the Jag . . .

 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

7 hours ago, Onoff said:

I think the model S is much more a knicker dropper in terms of looks that the 3.

 

The S to me says low slung coupe. The 3 is a bit more squat ans family compact looking. Only my opinion, don't get me wrong I'd happily have either! 

 

Maybe Tesla should think about slide in drive trains and power packs for other makes...

 

 

 

I did not realise just how big a Tesla Model 3 is until I stood next to it.

 

It is the same size as a Mercedes C Class Estate.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Markblox]

9 hours ago, K78 said:

 

The company are morally corrupt as well. They are clearly taking deposits on cars they have no intention of building. Cybertruck is a bad joke. Anyone who believes their $500 “deposit” has secured the a car that will never be built are gullible at best. 
 

 

My deposit for a reservation was £100, not $500.  They now have half a million deposits and it's due late next year.  The model Y was unveiled a year ago and although initially they were due this coming autumn, the first deliveries are in about three weeks.

I think you're going to be proved wrong on this,  just like all the people a few years ago that said the model 3 would never be built,  they were cynical at best.

[K78]

2 hours ago, Markblox said:

My deposit for a reservation was £100, not $500.  They now have half a million deposits and it's due late next year.  The model Y was unveiled a year ago and although initially they were due this coming autumn, the first deliveries are in about three weeks.

I think you're going to be proved wrong on this,  just like all the people a few years ago that said the model 3 would never be built,  they were cynical at best.

Well that is even more ridiculous. The deposit for a roadster is £15k. Very clever to have half a million gullible £100/$150 deposits sitting in their bank account gathering interest for a few years before being returned.

 

He made $5m overnight selling 20,000 limited edition roofing torches as “not a flame thrower” for $250. They sell on eBay now for £3000.
 
People doubted Tesla could cope with the volume for the model 3, not make it. Not many people (even car journalists) believe the cybertruck will be built.  It looks like a total recall prop and the staged video towing against a petrol truck was hilarious.
 

It’s not a real car. Just a pile of sheet steel on a model x platform. That design would never meet safety standards.

 

The one thing I love most about Elon Musk, is that he is the only person capable of being a real life supervillain. 
 

No doubt he’s a genius, but he isn’t above the odd internet scam. He openly joked about it on JRE. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by K78

[Markblox]

5 hours ago, K78 said:

Well that is even more ridiculous. The deposit for a roadster is £15k. Very clever to have half a million gullible £100/$150 deposits sitting in their bank account gathering interest for a few years before being returned.

 

He made $5m overnight selling 20,000 limited edition roofing torches as “not a flame thrower” for $250. They sell on eBay now for £3000.
 
People doubted Tesla could cope with the volume for the model 3, not make it. Not many people (even car journalists) believe the cybertruck will be built.  It looks like a total recall prop and the staged video towing against a petrol truck was hilarious.
 

It’s not a real car. Just a pile of sheet steel on a model x platform. That design would never meet safety standards.

 

The one thing I love most about Elon Musk, is that he is the only person capable of being a real life supervillain. 
 

No doubt he’s a genius, but he isn’t above the odd internet scam. He openly joked about it on JRE. 

Time will tell. You really should get your facts right though. The truck simply isn't on a model X platform. Another fact is the deposit in the US was $100, in the EU single currency area it was 100 Euro. I would love to see your source for the "not many people" comment. Time will tell.

[Temp]

I read somewhere that the design of the truck might have to be changed a lot to meet EU/UK regs because of the sharp edge and stiff materials. Any news on that?

[Jeremy Harris]

5 hours ago, K78 said:

Well that is even more ridiculous. The deposit for a roadster is £15k. Very clever to have half a million gullible £100/$150 deposits sitting in their bank account gathering interest for a few years before being returned.

 

He made $5m overnight selling 20,000 limited edition roofing torches as “not a flame thrower” for $250. They sell on eBay now for £3000.
 
People doubted Tesla could cope with the volume for the model 3, not make it. Not many people (even car journalists) believe the cybertruck will be built.  It looks like a total recall prop and the staged video towing against a petrol truck was hilarious.
 

It’s not a real car. Just a pile of sheet steel on a model x platform. That design would never meet safety standards.

 

The one thing I love most about Elon Musk, is that he is the only person capable of being a real life supervillain. 
 

No doubt he’s a genius, but he isn’t above the odd internet scam. He openly joked about it on JRE. 

 

 

Guess how VW secured the first few thousand orders for the, as then yet to be finalised, ID.3?  They took a £750 pre-booking deposit that guaranteed future customers a place in the queue.  I paid this deposit, as at the time (about a year ago) I thought that the ID.3 looked like it might meet our needs pretty well. 

 

Guess what?  VW are way behind schedule with the ID.3 and are having major software problems that don't look as if they will be resolved anytime soon.

 

However, just like Tesla, the deposit on the ID.3 was fully refundable, and VW paid it back within about a week of me cancelling my pre-order.  Just as well, as although Tesla give a 7 day, no quibble, money back guarantee if you take delivery of a car and then decide you just don't like it, and hand it back to them, VW don't.  Like every other car manufacturer, once you've taken delivery the deal is done.

 

Doesn't seem to me that Tesla are in any way "morally corrupt", that's a term that might more fairly be used to describe the proven immoral, cheating and law breaking behaviour of the VW Audi Group.  They are probably now going to face another massive fine, for not meeting the promise they made to start delivering the zero emissions (at point of use) ID.3 in volume this year.  IIRC, that fine is around another €10 billion, on top of how ever many billions the VW Audi Group have already had to pay out for being cheating liars.