Am I being too fussy?

[Devon_dream]

I have an old (1950s) house that still has its original roof, so I have got a local roofer in to re do it all.

 

I have been watching him and checking over the work when he's not there and I am not satisfied with the work, he's told me I'm being too fussy and that building regs are OTT.

 

Examples, I read the tiles need nailing every three rows but he's going 6-7 rows with no nails, his underlay at times are only overlapped about 7cm not 15 as printed on the underlay. He's won't use the plastic corrugated stuff that allows air past the insulation as he says it does nothing. He's put on the battens on but they're about 2 inches lower by the top at one end compared to the other, also he's not calculated the guage so the top two have a smaller overlap. There's loads of other things but there's a few examples.

 

Obviously if I didn't look I would never know these things and I'd probably be happy with the finish but having looked online and checked his work I wonder if I should do something about it? When I've question him he just says he's been a roofer for 25 years and building regs go too far and to just leave him to it.

 

Am I just being picky?

[joe90]

No, definitely not, I don’t know how he could call himself a roofer for 25years. Frankly I would not pay him a penny.

[Cpd]

Sounds crap to me......  if your paying a professional to do a job then you expect a proper job, if you pay a monkey peanuts then you have to expect sub standard work. I would be looking for alternatives. Could be a very tricky situation, old timers hate to be told they are doing it wrong. Best of luck. 

[Russell griffiths]

Tile nailing is dependant on tile make and wind rating in your area, I have tiled a roof before with not one nail in it anywhere so check manufacturers guidelines. 

Over lap on membrane, he should be sticking to what manufacturers recommend. 

Tile gauge will be dependent, if it is a detached house he should measure the entire roof and work out the gauge evenly, making sure he has the correct head lap

if it’s a semi detached, he may have to follow next door to maintain a good marry up with there tiles, unless he has put in a vertical valley 

if he won’t put in the ventilation tray what else has he missed, how about the anti ponding tray on top of the facia?

either way your paying so make sure you check and get it put right

[Devon_dream]

11 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Tile nailing is dependant on tile make and wind rating in your area, I have tiled a roof before with not one nail in it anywhere so check manufacturers guidelines. 

Over lap on membrane, he should be sticking to what manufacturers recommend. 

Tile gauge will be dependent, if it is a detached house he should measure the entire roof and work out the gauge evenly, making sure he has the correct head lap

if it’s a semi detached, he may have to follow next door to maintain a good marry up with there tiles, unless he has put in a vertical valley 

if he won’t put in the ventilation tray what else has he missed, how about the anti ponding tray on top of the facia?

either way your paying so make sure you check and get it put right

 

Funny you should mention that as he wasn't going to put it on but I argued and argued and then lied and said the building regs guy said it must be there, he begrudgingly put them on.

 

The tiles are Sandtoft 20/20, the membrane is Sandtoft vpm and the house is detached.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Devon_dream

[Barney12]

I’m in Devon and alas the county has a good few of these ‘local time served roofers’. As they say arround here “you caint lernit”. Unfortunately a lot of them are more used to roofing farm barns than houses. 

 

[LA3222]

I would be looking to 'mag to grid'.  The building trade in general seems to full of long in the tooth old sweats who will only do a job the way they've always done it, regardless of whether conventional thinking has evolved over the years.

 

It's your money, your house and you who must decide if you can live with it.  Although getting rid may be the easy answer, when you've got no roof on the choices are not so clear cut - circumstance may necessitate making the best of a bad job and cajoling may be the best approach vs combative.

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

Tricky.

In ascending order: point out> show> cajole> tell> instruct> warn> get someone else> sack> 

Many of us here have had variations of this on-going theme.

 

It's a friggin nightmare; and self-builders are regular targets of what @LA3222 accurately describes as

8 hours ago, LA3222 said:

[...]

  The building trade in general seems to (be) full of long in the tooth old sweats who will only do a job the way they've always done it, regardless of whether conventional thinking has evolved over the years.

[...]

 

[Devon_dream]

1 hour ago, recoveringacademic said:

Tricky.

In ascending order: point out> show> cajole> tell> instruct> warn> get someone else> sack> 

Many of us here have had variations of this on-going theme.

 

It's a friggin nightmare; and self-builders are regular targets of what @LA3222 accurately describes as

 

What makes it harder for me is he's a family friend. I'm going to have a word with him when he's back on Tuesday and of he won't do it the right way then it's the highway. Aka mag to grid

Edited November 12, 2018 by Devon_dream

[Ferdinand]

9 minutes ago, Devon_dream said:

What makes it harder for me is he's a family friend. I'm going to have a word with him when he's back on Tuesday and of he won't do it the right way then it's the highway. Aka mag to grid

 

I would say that it is better to bring it to a head, but you also need an eye on the old friendship and how you will preserve it (or not).

 

Difficult to advise on the latter, though it could end up as friends who disagreed one and move it, Christmas Card acquaintances or never-talk-again, and how you handle it coupdl determine which.

 

F

 

[LA3222]

I learnt a few years back to not mix business and friends after my brother fell out with a chippie mate of ours - very awkward.

 

There are a couple of builders in the village my plot is in, however I will steer well clear of using them - I'm approaching the build expecting to encounter cowboys and having to sack them, it seems to be par for the course which would become awkward if living near to them.

 

Hindsight is always the same - it's disappointing when someone you feel you could trust fails to live up to expectations and equally it is bang out of order to take advantage of your goodwill as a a family friend and produce poor workmanship thinking it's acceptable. 

[jack]

2 hours ago, Devon_dream said:

What makes it harder for me is he's a family friend. 

Friends don't behave like he's behaving.

[Declan52]

Plain and simple,  your paying good money for a guy to do the work.  He's not doing it how you would like it so it's either a case of telling him the way you want it done and he  does it this way or he  continues as he is doing and the roof is wrong.  Then it's up to you if you can live with the roof being  built wrong and the  long list of potential problems that can arise if you let him continue or you upset him by giving him the boot.  

If it was me he would be down the road. 

[Barney12]

35 minutes ago, jack said:

Friends don't behave like he's behaving.

 

I'm not so sure. If he's like the many I've met then he will genuinely have no comprehension that he is doing anything wrong.

[Devon_dream]

18 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

 

I'm not so sure. If he's like the many I've met then he will genuinely have no comprehension that he is doing anything wrong.

It's exactly like that, I'm telling him his roof isn't meeting building regs and all the plastic bits need putting on and he simply replies 'go and find one of my roofs that leaks, you won't, I'm right and building regs are wrong'.

 

I've also just measured all the batten spacings and the tiles have a headlap range of 210-255mm. His are 250mm in places and 280mm in others, at 280mm you can see the top part of the tile You're not supposed to. I've been on in all morning myself ripping the battens off and redoing them, I've worked out the gauge and put chalk lines across. It's taken me 5 hrs so far and will probably take the rest of the day.

[joe90]

3 minutes ago, Devon_dream said:

I'm right and building regs are wrong

 

Yes but it’s your roof, not his and your money !

[Devon_dream]

26 minutes ago, joe90 said:

 

Yes but it’s your roof, not his and your money !

Absolutely, just to make it even worse, when he quoted us he said he's more than these young cowboys as you pay more for time served. 

 

I've worked myself up for the conversation tomorrow, I will give him the chance to put this right or he's gone.

[Triassic]

Thinking i was doing the right thing and keeping it local, I used the local electrician from Our Village, never again, very poor quality of Work.

[jack]

1 hour ago, Barney12 said:

I'm not so sure. If he's like the many I've met then he will genuinely have no comprehension that he is doing anything wrong.

 

His lack of comprehension isn't relevant. His friend - and client - has asked for the job to be done properly, in accordance with formal rules that also require it to be done that way. The fact that he doesn't know any better isn't relevant.

 

56 minutes ago, Devon_dream said:

It's exactly like that, I'm telling him his roof isn't meeting building regs and all the plastic bits need putting on and he simply replies 'go and find one of my roofs that leaks, you won't, I'm right and building regs are wrong'.

 

Building regs can't be "wrong". They're regulations, not statements of fact.

 

He sounds like a nightmare. You have my sympathies - good luck!

[ToughButterCup]

5 hours ago, Devon_dream said:

[...]

Aka mag to grid

 

Click -

God it took me ages to get that. Must be fifty years or more since I was taught that......

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, Barney12 said:

I'm not so sure. If he's like the many I've met then he will genuinely have no comprehension that he is doing anything wrong.

 

Oh boy are you right @Barney12.

I think its linked to the fear which naturally goes with the personal change process. Better to do what you've always done.

1 hour ago, Devon_dream said:

[...]

I will give him the chance to put this right or he's gone.

 

Good luck.

[Roundtuit]

I also had challenges with roofers; a professional local company, but an old-school guy they put on the job.  I think BS 5534 requires every tile to have a mechanical fixing.  Might be over the top, but that's what I made them do anyway...