Stick build or factory built TF

[dpmiller]

@JamesP where does your 85k figure come from?

[Ed Davies]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

The other was to borrow a mates barn and build up a load of Larson truss panels

If it's load bearing (e.g., propping up the roof) it's not a Larsen truss. A similar truss system which is load bearing might well be a good idea, though.

[Jeremy Harris]

46 minutes ago, Ed Davies said:

If it's load bearing (e.g., propping up the roof) it's not a Larsen truss. A similar truss system which is load bearing might well be a good idea, though.

 

As I understand it, John Larsen was comfortable with his original external ladder frame EWI idea being adapted to the twin ladder frame structural truss system for new builds and retaining his name.  Our build uses a twin stud system that is, to all intents and purposes, identical in concept, and has been widely used in North American timber framed homes for a couple of decades now. 

 

John Larsen wanted to come up with a way of better insulating existing homes with an added a non-structural outer frame as a way of making a space that could be filled with non-sheet insulation, whilst retaining the inner stud frame members as the structural components.  Twin stud walls for new builds just takes John Larsen's idea and applies it to a new frame, with the outer stud being the non-structural member (as in John Larsen's add-on frames) and the inner timber being the only structural timber (just as the original timber frame timbers would be in John Larsen's add-on system).

 

In our case the inner stud bears on the concrete slab, whilst the outer stud rests on the 200mm thick EPS upstand around the slab, so isn't load bearing.  In terms of the core principal that John Larsen came up with, which was to virtually remove thermal bridging between the internal structural frame and the external weather cladding support, then there is no difference between the new build twin stud wall and a retrofit ladder frame filled with insulation to hold new cladding.

 

 

[Ed Davies]

This article, which includes an interview with John Larsen, is pretty clear on the subject: https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/all-about-larsen-trusses . Similarly, this one (http://www.suncertifiedbuilders.com/en/Larson Truss) even suggests that it should strictly be external to the sheathing of the structural wall.

 

Whatever, I think it'd be better to keep the name specifically for non-structural trusses and call, as that first article does, a structural version a wall truss.

[Russell griffiths]

I have edited my post to re name the Larsen truss wall panel to be known as a trussed wall panel. 

@Ed Davies

[Ben100]

On 07/11/2018 at 08:59, PeterStarck said:

Yes my frame is a timber I-beam portal frame and was cut and joined in the factory except for the largest frames which were made in two halves in the factory and joined on site. These largest ones were actually erected by hand and the smaller ones lifted in by crane. This picture shows one of the first being lifted in by crane.

 

 

Was there much difference in cost between i-joists and standard structural grade timber?

 

[Gone West]

4 hours ago, Ben100 said:

 

Was there much difference in cost between i-joists and standard structural grade timber?

 

I'm afraid I don't know because we wanted that type of construction because it minimises thermal bridging and it was within our budget for the frame.

[Russell griffiths]

At the moment I am having quotes for my roof 

220mm I joists the prices are on average double the cost of a standard 225x50 structural grade timber. 

 

But its not just the cost of the timber to look into

if you stick build it in normal timber you may use something that could be anything from 140mm to 180mm any bigger and your getting silly, so you need to look at how much insulation you can get in between the joists. 

Not enough. 

So now you need to look at insulation across the face of the studs either inside or outside, so more work and more cost.

a lot to think about not just the cost of the joists. 

Im not clever enough to start talking about u values and all that junk, I just like knocking it all together, I will let somebody else tell you how to get it up to spec with regards insulation. 

[Square Feet]

I was watching some old episodes of Building the Dream the other night and one had a guy who built his own panels on site.  It is Series 4 episode 1 (Newcastle) if you are interested:

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/building-the-dream/on-demand/57257-012

[Thedreamer]

On 13/11/2018 at 18:31, Square Feet said:

I was watching some old episodes of Building the Dream the other night and one had a guy who built his own panels on site.  It is Series 4 episode 1 (Newcastle) if you are interested:

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/building-the-dream/on-demand/57257-012

 

Strange I watched that on Tuesday as well ?

 

Working my way through all the series.

 

[Square Feet]

 me too

[Ben100]

On 13/11/2018 at 18:31, Square Feet said:

I was watching some old episodes of Building the Dream the other night and one had a guy who built his own panels on site.  It is Series 4 episode 1 (Newcastle) if you are interested:

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/building-the-dream/on-demand/57257-012

 

I will, cheers!

[Square Feet]

12 minutes ago, Ben100 said:

 

I will, cheers!

 

Try not to get too irritated by the Wickes ads

 

[DragsterDriver]

On 06/11/2018 at 18:28, Russell griffiths said:

Why is stick framing not that popular?

because not many people can do it. It’s that simple

its easier to write a cheque out, and it turns up on a truck

 

dont be misled into thinking its easy to frame a house it’s not, you will need a pile of tools,

chop saw, circular saw,  nail gun

i would think your easier route would be to get Cullen to design it, a local sawmill to chop it all up, and you and a mate to put it up, you will need a mate, you will struggle trying to plumb a chunk of timber and fire some nails in it on your own. 

 

I stick built our last place, all 360m of it. If I was doing it again I would use an i joist and have it all CAD designed, wider timber area to allow more insulation, timber is all straight. 

Go to your local lumber yard and try looking for a straight piece of 6x2 you will pick up 4 before you find one you want. 

If you use an i joist you will probably not build it in panel form but in a true stick sense, this is easier to lift in place as you can add the racking boards after, and the insulation after you have it all water tight. 

 

Make sure you look into airtightness, as you will need to detail it very well to get a membrane in place before you fit first floor joists, as it is a pig to detail if you try to do it later. 

I think @PeterStarck used I joists, read his blog the frame looks fantastic. 

I should really look into an I joist frame, maybe I’ll speak to cullens about translating the plans into a timber frame. I was going to use a kit but even at trade prices I’ll save £10k stick building. 

[jamieled]

We stick built using JJI's. There's not a huge difference to just using standard carcassing timber.

[DragsterDriver]

I built this for a mate yesterday, need to cut a roof on it but I’m too old to be doing it without some Scaffold.

 

Still undecided on stick building my own place, easy enough but if the panels Are cheap it’s so

much easier and quicker with a forklift on site