Pre-Application submission advice

[Moonshine]

I am submitting details to the council for a pre-application advice before i submit in full.

 

I have put together a description of what i am wanting to do with a block diagram of the plot, including a max ridge height, but no elevations as i think that would be too detailed.

 

Does anyone have any advice on good things to include and things not to include.

 

[Onoff]

I didn't even know you could do this do thanks. I assume there's a charge? 

 

(I want to convert out hip ends to gables but the previous owner already had their 50% increase or whatever it is 30 years ago. I started to read up on permitted development and it talks about "not if it increases the volume by X"). 

[Jeremy Harris]

There's usually a charge, last time I checked it was £90 here, even if it was just a five minute chat with a planner on the phone.

 

Not sure how much value pre-planning advice is, TBH.  It's not binding, and will probably only tend to tell you things you can find out anyway by reading the local planning policy together with the NPPF. 

 

The only thing it's probably really any good for is if you're planning to do something that's borderline with regard to local planning policy or the NPPF, in which case it helps a bit to get a feel as to how the planners might approach it, specifically what they may use as reasons for refusal.

 

Worth remembering that there is supposed to be assumption to grant PP, UNLESS there is something specific in the local planning policy, or the NPPF, that precludes that.  It's easy to believe that there is an assumption against granting PP, though, from the way some planners (particularly planning committees) tend to behave.

 

I'm inclined to think that if you think there may well be some doubt as to whether you would get PP, then you're better putting the pre-app fee towards a decent local planning consultant's fee, as the chances are you'll get far better advice from a planning consultant who knows the local area and policies well than you may from a planning officer giving non-binding pre app advice.

[ultramods]

I would try and be as detailed as possible in terms of the exterior elevations, window sizes/positions. roof and wall cladding materials. Boundary wall, fence heights and materials.

 

I also found it very useful to have a face to face meeting with the planning officer and my architect, things that would have taken weeks to resolve going back and fore in emails were resolved within an hour.

 

Also decide on what you are/aren't willing to compromise as this can help in term's of negotiating with the council but also not delaying the process unnecessarily.

 

However be careful with submitting elevations without having thought about the internal floor plans.

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by ultramods

[Dreadnaught]

In our local authority, there is a duty planning officer, a service intended to handle questions about how to navigate the planning system and to deal with the most minor planning questions. Its a free service.

 

I spoke to them twice about the best planning strategy for my plot. On both calls (you can book a call or attend in person), to my delight as the conversation progressed the chatty duty planning officer freely volunteered an opinion about my proposal, which I had emailed in ahead of time, and even followed it up with an email afterwards confirming what she had said.

 

As a consequence, I had received much of what I needed for free, and much more quickly (within a couple of days) than by going the route of a formal pre-app consultation (which I am led to believe have much longer lead times and are much more involved).

[Jeremy Harris]

Here, if you want an informal phone call with a planning officer before you've submitted an application there's a £90 fee to be paid.  No contact at all is allowed until you've either paid the pre-app fee or paid the planning application submission fee - they simply won't allow phone calls to go through to planning officers without either of those two criteria being met.  Anyone that still has access to a free chat with a planner is in a fortunate, and most probably minority, position.

[jack]

 

19 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

Here, if you want an informal phone call with a planning officer before you've submitted an application there's a £90 fee to be paid.  No contact at all is allowed until you've either paid the pre-app fee or paid the planning application submission fee - they simply won't allow phone calls to go through to planning officers without either of those two criteria being met.  Anyone that still has access to a free chat with a planner is in a fortunate, and most probably minority, position.

 

I believe it depends what you're after in our council (Waverley). If it's to do with extensions or refurbs, you can book a free appointment.

 

As soon you talk about knocking the house down, you're a developer, and they won't say a word without you paying.

 

We avoided the fee by talking about it as if we were significantly refurbing the bungalow we owned, rather than knocking it down.

[Moonshine]

51 minutes ago, Onoff said:

I didn't even know you could do this do thanks. I assume there's a charge? 

 

Its a free service in my council.

[Jeremy Harris]

9 minutes ago, mike m said:

 

Its a free service in my council.

 

 

I'd take full advantage of that, then, as presumably, being free, you can have several goes until you get some advice that both you and the planner are happy with.

[Ed Davies]

Strange how councils vary. Orkney were quite happy to talk - I went over for an hour's meeting with a planning lady which was quite helpful when I was looking seriously at a plot there. On the other hand, Highland refuse to talk - they just say put in a pre-app enquiry but at least that's free.

 

For my house which is technically within the letter of what the planning permission in principle the plot already had specified but clearly not what either the original submitter (the chap selling the land) had in mind or how the council would have imagined it, I was very reassured by getting a (pretty positive) pre-app response before splashing out for the house designer's drawing and the planning application fee.

 

One thing I do wonder though: are pre-app responses ever used to limit what people can do beyond what the planning frameworks allow. E.g., a planning officer could put something in a pre-app response which is basically personal prejudice without much risk of comeback or appeal as the whole thing's just advisory. Either the applicant will accept it and put in a different plan or, if they persist, then the planning officer can use the fact that it was submitted against their advice to help squish it even if it's not really justified.

[AliMcLeod]

£55 for a householder proposal (eg, extension) here. 50% of full application fee if a new build, up to max of £500. More for bigger proposals. 

 

https://www.fifedirect.org.uk/topics/index.cfm?fuseaction=page.display&p2sid=76853FB9-FF8B-3DB3-0739D8BB456585F4&themeid=2b482e89-1cc4-e06a-52fba69f838f4d24

 

I can't see why someone doing a new build would go down the 50% route unless they was a good chance a full proposal would never be approved. Would be much fairer if the pre-application cost was offset against any future full application for the same plot.

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by AliMcLeod

[Jeremy Harris]

Also worth bearing in mind that if an application is refused you normally get a free resubmission anyway, so you could use an application as a way to get pre-app advice that was binding, if you wished.

[TerryE]

Most LPAs are now under severe financial restraints and the need for cost recovery.  So in our LPA we are at the other extreme and there is zero chance of walking into the planning office and expecting 5 mins of advice.  So we went the PPA route, and to be honest we found it very good value.  Our LPA had a fixed schedule of charges; the fees are for new builds 1-9 houses are:

• £160 + VAT for Meeting + written advice + site visit 
• £80  + VAT for Follow up requests for further meeting + written advice (+ site visit if needed)

But look online: your LPA will publish guidelines and a schedule of charges.

 

IMO, it is a good idea effectively to prepare a decent draft of the full application.  What we got for our money was the PO read through our application in depth and he then came to the site and we had a sit down and detailed discussion where he told us what the LPA would like and also made some very useful suggestions.  His write up was also very useful and I did regularly refer back to it.  TBA, the £160 was very good VFM given his effort and input.   He answered a couple of emails but also suggested a follow up which we didn't take up, because we didn't like the 6 week response cycle, but in retrospect we should have done so.

 

Three points:

• Your case officer assessing your application will also read the PPA.  If you follow the PPA then the assessment will say this, and this will greatly help in getting you application approved.
• However, it isn't a guarantee as I have heard of cases where the subsequent application follows PPA and is still turned down, but much of this is street tales from by builder, I don't know.
• If you have PPA and go against it in your application, then this is a definite black mark; better to prepare the evidence and to try to get the POs support in a follow up.

IMO, the whole planning cycle is a potential nightmare.  PPA is the one time that you are paying for LPA services and they are committing to a face-to-face engagement; the fees are reasonable and I think that this is money well spent. 

 

I personally disagree about using the planning application cycle as a way of getting free advice.  The only time that we tried this was when our LP enforcement officer told use that we had to put in a NMA because our front door was not consistent with our application.  "You can discuss the application with the allocated officer".  The only problem was that our LPA leaves allocation to the last minute, so there wasn't anyone allocated a few days before the SLA deadline.  We then got a rejection without him even contacting us: submit a MMA.  I don't think that he even bothered to read the submission properly.   Unfortunately NMA vs MMA is entirely at the discretion of LPA, and there was no way that the planner was going to change his mind, once the paperwork had been posted.

 

 

[Onoff]

Mine:

 

Householder applications
First letter - £96
Second letter - £96
Meeting plus written advice - £120

[recoveringbuilder]

Free service here, we even had a visit from the head of planning to see what we were proposing after which we put in a sketch which he ok’d then detailed plans were submitted 

[Ferdinand]

You can of course talk to Planning Aid, who are the RTPI offering free advice.

 

http://www.rtpi.org.uk/planning-aid/

 

They advise on planning law and policy, not cases.

 

F

[Ferdinand]

In our place there is a Duty Planner who you can talk about specifics with if you are careful not to take the P. No charges for that.

 

Building Control are amenable to conversations.

 

F

Edited August 19, 2018 by Ferdinand

[Temp]

I got a whole years worth of pre app advice for free. ?

[Oz07]

Free here too but be wary of following their advice. They advised my extension, although fine in principle should be set back and with lower ridge to make it obvious as an extension. I found 2 recent approvals where this was not the case. Submitted without taking this part or they're advice and approved. Waste of 8 weeks. Would have been miffed if paid for that.