lizzie Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Well my expensive Grohe leak guard system is working. Water supply to house was switched off by the system overnight. I have found the leak in kitchen cupboard under sink. If system had not knocked water off would have been a nice flood by this morning. No plumber until Monday though! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Wow, that’s good. Not seen that (or would have considered it for our build). I must find out how it works, internet here I come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambs Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, lizzie said: Well my expensive Grohe leak guard system is working. Expensive, yes, but with that one incident it has probably more than paid for itself and you no longer have to go through life fretting about the money you spent on it..... It worked when it was needed and saved you a lot of money by doing so. Excellent result for you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 Yes I'm happy.....all the builders laughed at me spending 600ish on the thing but he who laughs last etc :-)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) There are these flood sensors. £65-ish. But they would only catch a leak in one location and not turn off the supply (unless you had home automation for doing so). https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/HLPS2ZM/A/fibaro-flood-sensor-homekit-enabled Edited July 27, 2018 by Dreadnaught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Addendum: Fibaro, the maker of the above sensor, has instructions for using a 2-way normally open solenoid for turning off the water supply if a sensor detects a leak… https://manuals.fibaro.com/knowledge-base-browse/homekit-close-the-water-valve-if-leak-detected/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 I chose the Grohe device specifically because it senses the whole house water system. It is on the incoming main. I have it on an app so can see status any time anywhere. Its shows me pressure, temp and usage. I set defaults and it will switch system off if system goes outside those parameters. It detects micro leaks as well as pressure drops and with all my pipes running in the roof above 450 of mbc best pumped insulation I wanted to keep an eye on things. You can get those extra little flood sensors to go onto Grohe system but I did not bother. Its now become more widely available (was only via registered installer when I got mine so first fix plumber supplied and fitted). Good price here today - less than I paid. https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/grohe-sense-guard-smart-water-controller-22513ln0?campaign=googlebase&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxPGUwZK_3AIVzJ3tCh2gAQ76EAQYASABEgKTVfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Even cheaper here: https://www.tradingdepot.co.uk/grohe-sense-guard-smart-water-controller-22513ln0 Looks like a good device. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivienz Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 £300 is well worth the money to save the hassle of having to clear up after a leak. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 How did it know that you had a leak? Does it monitor flow rates and look for out-of-the-ordinary parameters (like continuous water usage overnight)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, jack said: How did it know that you had a leak? Does it monitor flow rates and look for out-of-the-ordinary parameters (like continuous water usage overnight)? yes it does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Crap plumbers everywhere are currently bulk buying those ! Previous customer had a £35k bespoke kitchen ( fitters of which couldn't hang a picture tbh ) and they're MD came in refusing to let me near the plumbing, after I'd plumbed the entire bloody big house without issue. Along comes the fitter with a worried look and a blow lamp. Following day, a Saturday morning, the customer is walking around his 100m2 of 600x600mm porcelain floor in flippers Who does the kitchen co ask to fix it? Dry soldered joint. They got the copper so hot it had gone black. Ive not ever heard of or seen these devices tbh, just not sure how to approach a customer and say "can you spend change of £500 fitting this system to protect you against my plumbing in case it leaks?" One for the customer to decide I guess, but I'll certainly consider suggesting fitting one if they're happy to pay for it. I'll bet there will be a mixed response and some ridicule from other plumbers. @lizzie Was this an error on the plumbers side, or the kitchen fitters side? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) @Nickfromwales I think it was plumbers they have done a very peculiar connection in the cupboard under the kitchen sink, they have all connections for waste from utility/washing machine/kitchen sink/dishwasher going into one. They blanked off the utility waste for some reason. The incoming water is as much of a pigs ear and the whole installation is very noisy in the kitchen when washing machine is draining in utility. I think making me wait 4 days to come out and look at their install is pretty naughty. I have everything off on isolation valves but no kitchen water etc for 4 days is a pain. i fitted the Grohe device because we have all that plastic piping up in the ceiling and its got all the MBC pumped insulation around it so a leak would take a while to show and I wanted to know if anything was going on before the ceiling came down. I'm a bit old fashioned always had copper pipes I could go up in the roof and look at, this system of plastic buried in insulation is a worry for me......I am a bit of a worrier if I cant see what is what. It was me that found the device and asked for it to be fitted, plumbers thought I was mad! Edited July 28, 2018 by lizzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I would tell them to call out immediately or foot the bill for someone else to come out. 4 days is BS. Any pics of the waste etc? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 22 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: I would tell them to call out immediately or foot the bill for someone else to come out. 4 days is BS. Absolutely! This is a proper emergency situation as a result of their negligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Crap plumbers everywhere are currently bulk buying those ! Previous customer had a £35k bespoke kitchen ( fitters of which couldn't hang a picture tbh ) and they're MD came in refusing to let me near the plumbing, after I'd plumbed the entire bloody big house without issue. Along comes the fitter with a worried look and a blow lamp. Following day, a Saturday morning, the customer is walking around his 100m2 of 600x600mm porcelain floor in flippers Who does the kitchen co ask to fix it? Dry soldered joint. They got the copper so hot it had gone black. Ive not ever heard of or seen these devices tbh, just not sure how to approach a customer and say "can you spend change of £500 fitting this system to protect you against my plumbing in case it leaks?" One for the customer to decide I guess, but I'll certainly consider suggesting fitting one if they're happy to pay for it. I'll bet there will be a mixed response and some ridicule from other plumbers. @lizzie Was this an error on the plumbers side, or the kitchen fitters side? You need a customer with a previous 10k claim for water damage and a month in a hotel. Like that one? F Edited July 28, 2018 by Ferdinand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 I have had to stuff paper in the waste that wont go back together. It stinks. I got one bit back but cant get the rest back. The white pipe is all jagged I dont think it was cut properly and the rubber ring is all distorted. The other bit of pipe I got back together is very much worse really ragged and uneven and rubber ring a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 What kind of plumber spends an age doing all that lovely copper work then cuts that 90 elbow with a hatchet?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 The other one is worse @Declan52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 That lovely copper is Tectite - fine for visible stuff but cannot be demounted... It “looks” professional but in reality anyone can do it as long as the ends are cut with a pipe slice - you can’t use the fresh end of a pipe nor can you use a hacksaw as it knackers the o-ring. My guess is that it’s leaking from a copper joint where he’s not done it correctly and if the waste is anything to go by, I’d expect he’s damaged a tectite fitting it. @lizzie what concerns me there is that part shouldn’t be into an ordinary elbow, that’s a waste set that he has hacked about and basically made a complete f&ck up of...!! It’s noisy as the long horizontal pipe is acting as an echo chamber ..!! This is a McAlpine double branch - see how the waste itself has the locking ring, not the fitting afterwards..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 @PeterW are you saying its a complete c**k up then? I was going to get him back about the noise (and I think the odd hint of a smell now and then) but have been so busy with other stuff it was still on the to do list. The leak has overtaken that now. Should I get another plumber to look at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I am so pleased I did my own plumbing, god there are some right cowboys out there, shame because they all tend to get tarred with the same brush (like builders). This is not rocket science (like my ASHP?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Right. The smell is probably because of this pipe. Chances are, crap is settling out as it flows down as it’s horizontal and that’s what smells. There looks to be only a small water trap to that too but shouldn’t be an issue. The noise is because the water from the dishwasher is hitting the side of the pipe as it rushes in - McAlpine fix this with a redirect flap on the inside so it goes downwards only. It could - and should - be done much neater than that and it just looks like a van job (that is a job done from crap off the van as I can’t be bothered to go to the merchants for the right stuff..) Got a picture of the other one ..? And if you paid for this then they should put it right. If they don’t want to then send them then bill. Where is the leak out of interest ..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Ferdinand said: You need a customer with a previous 10k claim for water damage and a month in a hotel. Like that one? F Sorry @lizzie I meant the other one ?. You are in the wise planner ahead category. i had an 8k claim, which is why I now go some way .. but not £500 worth ... to improve water leak resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 On 27/07/2018 at 12:26, Barney12 said: Even cheaper here: https://www.tradingdepot.co.uk/grohe-sense-guard-smart-water-controller-22513ln0 Looks like a good device. Certainly worth thinking about. If you think about it in terms of what your insurance excess would be if there was a leak, perhaps not a bad investment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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