Mr Punter Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 3 hours ago, pocster said: CCJ issued ... If they come back with a defence it would be worth you downloading some design details from other suppliers or walk on rooflights where their drawings concur with the way you measured. If more than one firm has your method as a standard, I would think your chances of of success would be greatly strengthened. You will probably need to submit these to the Court and the other side before the hearing. Also, did you get quotes from other firms and if so, what was the basis of their offer(s)? Again, if you can establish that everyone else used dimension X and the other side seemed to use dimension Y I think your case will be strengthened, particularly as you are an individual consumer so there is no presumption that you should have known better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 Just now, Mr Punter said: If they come back with a defence it would be worth you downloading some design details from other suppliers or walk on rooflights where their drawings concur with the way you measured. If more than one firm has your method as a standard, I would think your chances of of success would be greatly strengthened. You will probably need to submit these to the Court and the other side before the hearing. Also, did you get quotes from other firms and if so, what was the basis of their offer(s)? Again, if you can establish that everyone else used dimension X and the other side seemed to use dimension Y I think your case will be strengthened, particularly as you are an individual consumer so there is no presumption that you should have known better. Hey ! yep - have other quotes and some explicitly say “internal dimensions “ None will supply drawings unless you pay the deposit ( usually 50% up front ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 Update The company in question finally responded to the court . Naturally they state it’s all my fault and that the drawings are not “ unintentionally misleading “ . Needless to say they don’t respond to any of my points . They have suggested they would be willing to use the court mediation service which avoids a hearing . Anyone attended a mediation? ; my natural response is just straight to the hearing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 I have done mediation via telephone. The outcome was acceptable. I think the court like you to do this if it is offered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 You can still proceed to a hearing if the mediation doesn’t work out I believe. The court may prefer it if you have if have tried to work things out using the service. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, newhome said: You can still proceed to a hearing if the mediation doesn’t work out I believe. The court may prefer it if you have if have tried to work things out using the service. Yeah I did guess it shows a favourable approach rather than just saying no . What I don’t understand is they could of made a sensible offer without me going down the ccj route . Perhaps it needs to be ‘real’ for them to take action . Not sure it can be done by phone though . Who chooses the location if we must meet ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 The cost of the mediation is less via phone. The mediator does not decide the outcome they will just put your points to the other party and try to see if there is an area where you are willing to settle. You will probably both need to compromise more than you feel comfortable with, but in any case with disputes such as this it is unlikely that a court would go for a slam dunk decision, as neither party was blameless. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 Mediation it is then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Hard to show drawings over the phone. I did my apprenticeship with an American company, all our drawings had an appropriately sized grid on them. Was easy to reference an area of interest then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizzie Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Good luck with mediation. I have done a few mediation hearings face to face but they were on big cases. Only had one telephone experience. Its a bit disjointed with it going to and fro but mediators job is to try and find a resolution to keep it from clogging up court so they are motivated to get the parties to 'meet in the middle'. It wont go against you if mediation fails but it would not be looked on kindly if you refused mediation so its the right thing to try it. Not sure of the stats on success rates on mediations but certainly a good percentage are not successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 I don't F'ing believe this! So the *new* glazing company... I tell them 'internal' measurements / opennings over and over again so there is NO CONFUSION! They told me they don't do drawings for 'supply only' but I told them to do a drawing!!!! Just got it!. Can you guess what they've done?. Stuck the bleeding windows in the holes not over them!!!. I don't get it!. From there drawing it would bloody leak and I don't see how you'd even fix it! I did speak to them ages ago and confirmed a 'shoe box' lid ; stuck over up stands. Now they've got back too me and said "we're only going on what you supplied'. YES! and I said INTERNAL! - of course they argue that's exactly what it is !!!! Here's the drawing! ; did they really think this would work as a water tight method??? So now the units are 'bigger' so the quote was wrong!!!!! FFS! MUST BE ME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Just looks like a crap design not a mistake. Is that seriously how they fit their lights? Id give them a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, jamiehamy said: Just looks like a crap design not a mistake. Is that seriously how they fit their lights? Id give them a pass. Well! This is their 'design' guy. I get the impression he just looked at the dimensions and did that i.e. he HAS NOT been given the previous email correspondence from the original guy I spoke to. I've checked back and it seems all fine. I think there's been no comms i.e. opening size 500 x 600 and that's it. So he just dumps that in a hole and says "thats all you put online". That's because that's all the online order allows. BUT! I have email's confirming the 'method' ; so! . I suspect the cost will now go up as the units he will of realised are larger!!!. I'm 100% in the right now! (for once). Edited June 6, 2018 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Hmm. There is nothing 'wrong' with this if it's their design. In this case, it looks like a steel subframe that gets bolted to the vertical part of the upstand, not laid on top of it. This may well be their design. I can't see them having two different methods surely? This one, I'd never go with. A larger unit will be a totally different design Skylight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Perhaps consider someone to do supply and fit? Leave it to them to measure, design, install and guarantee a robust and watertight solution. Either that OR send them a proper drawing and specification of what you require. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 16 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: Perhaps consider someone to do supply and fit? Leave it to them to measure, design, install and guarantee a robust and watertight solution. Either that OR send them a proper drawing and specification of what you require. I did They now admit the information wasn’t passed on to the ‘design’ guy . We are going to split the cost increase !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 49 minutes ago, jamiehamy said: Hmm. There is nothing 'wrong' with this if it's their design. In this case, it looks like a steel subframe that gets bolted to the vertical part of the upstand, not laid on top of it. This may well be their design. I can't see them having two different methods surely? This one, I'd never go with. A larger unit will be a totally different design Skylight. Apparently they design whatever you want . It’s all quite strange ; because most companies *tell* you the design .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, pocster said: Apparently they design whatever you want . It’s all quite strange ; because most companies *tell* you the design .... Ooft! Finger crossed. It would make me wary - let's say you'd gone with that design and it leaked - which it easily would - how could liability be apportioned? They wouldn't be able to blame non conformance to the design spec and MIs but similarly, they could say that's what you wanted made. Hmm twice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 Just now, jamiehamy said: Ooft! Finger crossed. It would make me wary - let's say you'd gone with that design and it leaked - which it easily would - how could liability be apportioned? They wouldn't be able to blame non conformance to the design spec and MIs but similarly, they could say that's what you wanted made. Hmm twice! Exactly ! Apparently you only usually get drawings on supply AND install . No drawings for just supply - that’s insane !!! . Just got new drawings ; looks correct now ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr Punter said: Perhaps consider someone to do supply and fit? +1. For something seemingly as specialist as this, and expensive, I would be letting someone else carry most of the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 +2 ... glass is a fickle medium. Get a grain of muck in the sealant and press down on it - these are walk on aren’t they ..? - and it could shatter the glass due to the point pressure. I’ve done one window on a kerb and it’s enough for me - lots to go wrong, and lots of cost if it does ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 buy cheap buy twice springs to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: buy cheap buy twice springs to mind I don’t even think they are cheap! They’re expensive iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 40 minutes ago, newhome said: I don’t even think they are cheap! They’re expensive iirc. Yes ! Its not like I’m buying some cheap crap . These are basically the same price as the 1st set ; so 3.5k punt a time !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, PeterW said: +2 ... glass is a fickle medium. Get a grain of muck in the sealant and press down on it - these are walk on aren’t they ..? - and it could shatter the glass due to the point pressure. I’ve done one window on a kerb and it’s enough for me - lots to go wrong, and lots of cost if it does ... Yep I agree But as a saving it is simple to install . Sealant round hole ; push glass down - done . Obviously trying all before with no sealant . If I bust a unit ; then my fault ? Edited June 6, 2018 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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