Help me find my hot water cylinder

[JOE187]

Have you looked at Fabdec Excelsior heat pump range and  made in UK and also Joule cylinders Ireland?

 I have personally used Fabdec  for solar thermal and seems a well made guaranteed product!

[ProDave]

Fadebec too expensive and too tall.

 

Joule too expensive and the crafty so and so's don't even include the installation kit which is extra.

 

It's going to be a Telford, which apart from anything else seems to be the shortest 300L cylinder I have found and the cheapest (though I still think it is a LOT of money for what it is)

[Nickfromwales]

On 14/04/2018 at 16:36, ProDave said:

Fadebec too expensive and too tall.

 

Joule too expensive and the crafty so and so's don't even include the installation kit which is extra.

 

It's going to be a Telford, which apart from anything else seems to be the shortest 300L cylinder I have found and the cheapest (though I still think it is a LOT of money for what it is)

IIRC Telford manufacture for Joule. 

[Nickfromwales]

Did you find out any info about the pros / cons of the two different sized coils? From what I read the HP likes the return as cool as possible so the bigger coil should win the day. Im still getting to grips with the science of the HP's so by no means an expert.....yet. Im booking myself in for a few HP training and product awareness courses shortly so that'll soon change.

Knowledge is power, so im roughly 37% powerful, 66% bacon, 41% Tunnocks teacakes, and the remaining % im leaving for beer.  

[Alexphd1]

Interesting about return temp been low. Every day is a school day.

[jack]

7 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Knowledge is power, so im roughly 37% powerful, 66% bacon, 41% Tunnocks teacakes, and the remaining % im leaving for beer.  

 

You forgot 18% maths.

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, Alexphd1 said:

Interesting about return temp been low. Every day is a school day.

Yes, that is interesting as it could hurt the CoP when the weather is right and the cylinder is cold.

But

On 4/13/2018 at 16:46, jack said:

From memory, the ASHP doesn't output the target temperature while heating the tank. It outputs water that's a few degrees higher than the current return temperature. As such, you don't ever have a huge temperature difference driving energy into the tank.

So some homework to do

Edited April 16, 2018 by SteamyTea

[ProDave]

All that is inside the heat pump is a plate heat exchanger to transfer the heat from the refrigerant to the water (brine) so I can't see there is anything in the heat pump to get upset.

 

I have spoken to Technical help at Telford. They advised for my small heat pump to use the standard heap pump coil not the larger one. The argument being that the larger input coil takes it almost to the top of the tank so most of the time will be in the hottest part and you won't get much extra heat transfer. They advised the larger coil is best suited to larger cylinders above 450L

[Nickfromwales]

48 minutes ago, jack said:

 

You forgot 18% maths.

Muppet. That makes 103% ! Its just not possible. 

[Nickfromwales]

16 minutes ago, ProDave said:

All that is inside the heat pump is a plate heat exchanger to transfer the heat from the refrigerant to the water (brine) so I can't see there is anything in the heat pump to get upset.

 

I have spoken to Technical help at Telford. They advised for my small heat pump to use the standard heap pump coil not the larger one. The argument being that the larger input coil takes it almost to the top of the tank so most of the time will be in the hottest part and you won't get much extra heat transfer. They advised the larger coil is best suited to larger cylinders above 450L

Gotcha.

 

3 hours ago, Alexphd1 said:

Every day is a school day.

Indeed. 

By the time I've stopped learning i'll be too f****d to do anything with the information. 

[newhome]

8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Knowledge is power, so im roughly 37% powerful, 66% bacon, 41% Tunnocks teacakes, and the remaining % im leaving for beer.  

 

37 + 66 + 41 = . Or are we going for 200 with a baby on board 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

Jesus, that'll be twins then

[PeterW]

They weren’t man boobs, he’d got a bacon cob up each side .... 

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, newhome said:

 

37 + 66 + 41 = . Or are we going for 200 with a baby on board 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Surely that is how they count identical sheep?

 

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Ferdinand

[newhome]

7 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Surely that is how they count identical sheep?

 

 

I’ve owned sheep. Believe me they are never that bloody obliging! Mine escaped and ran down Epping High Street on the last Sat before Xmas causing complete chaos. Needed 3 police cars and several residents to round them up before we could get down there with the dogs and a trailer. Bloody things were destined for the pot after that episode believe me! 

 

[Nickfromwales]

"Mint sauce anyone?"

[newhome]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

They weren’t man boobs, he’d got a bacon cob up each side .... 

 

I’m just glad I wasn’t party to what you guys were up to crawling around in that cupboard!  

 

[PeterW]

Which cupboard .........?? We went in lots of cupboards..!!! And each has a story to tell ... 

[jack]

27 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Which cupboard .........?? We went in lots of cupboards..!!! And each has a story to tell ... 

 

What goes on tour...

[le-cerveau]

On 4/13/2018 at 18:46, jack said:

From memory, the ASHP doesn't output the target temperature while heating the tank. It outputs water that's a few degrees higher than the current return temperature. As such, you don't ever have a huge temperature difference driving energy into the tank.

 

That is what mine does, though I am using the heating function to heat my PCM34 cells, I have a ΔT of 5^oC for the heating and the ASHP pushes water out at 5^oC above the return temp until it gets to the desired temp or stops getting a heating signal.

[jack]

5 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

So some homework to do

 

 

Or not:

 

31 minutes ago, le-cerveau said:

That is what mine does, though I am using the heating function to heat my PCM34 cells, I have a ΔT of 5^oC for the heating and the ASHP pushes water out at 5^oC above the return temp until it gets to the desired temp or stops getting a heating signal.

 

Again from memory, this is roughly the temperature difference I recall noting while my ASHP heated its first half tank of water. I hadn't really thought about it and expected a much higher supply temperature.

[SteamyTea]

it would make sense, as long as time is not an issue (which normally it won't be).

By keeping the supply a bit higher than the return, and both higher than the sink temperature initially, it can run for longer with a lower risk of having to defrost.  Makes for a good reason to put in a larger store if you can.

[ProDave]

It arrived today.  A day early in fact, I had been told to expect it on Friday, so I had gone out to do a job.  I just got back late afternoon and there was the truck pulling up at the house.

 

One question.

 

The two input coil ports are side by side. The diagram in the instructions says "heat pump flow and return"  But WHICH is flow, the left one or the right one?

[PeterW]

22 hours ago, ProDave said:

The two input coil ports are side by side. The diagram in the instructions says "heat pump flow and return"  But WHICH is flow, the left one or the right one?

 When you get the answer let me know ......

 

Got mine to do too ..!

 

Edited to add - this is the sketch which shows flow and return on mine. 

 

[ProDave]

Telford Technical said it does not matter, it' a symetrical coil that goes up and down the tank twice.