Per m2 cost discrepancies, enthusiasts v. national figures.

[IanR]

14 hours ago, Hecateh said:

VAT - you can only make one claim and it has to be within 3 months of completing.  If doing it yourself you have to be able to finance this 20% until you reclaim and if you reclaim as soon as you move in you won't get any other expenditure tax free (As I understand it)

 

What are you saying here (the bold bit), are you saying that once you have made a claim you won't be able to reclaim any further VAT on the build, or, once you have moved in you won't be able to reclaim any further VAT on the build.

 

You can only claim once so the former is true, but just wondering if you have seen something that states the latter. I believe that once you have a completion Certificate you can't claim any VAT incurred there after, but hadn't seen anything similar regard an occupation date.

 

I'm just doing my reclaim form and they do ask for an occupation date.

[bissoejosh]

You can save a large amount with regards to professional services if you're slightly handy on a computer and are willing to put some time in learning. I've purchased and learned sketchup pro to a point where all our planning, appeals & revisions cost nothing other than the compulsory fees. In my opinion most self builders have a very clear idea what they want to build.

 

I've also done all our building regs, SAP analysis and follow on drawings to help with construction. Total cost £50 approx as my partner is a student and qualified for an educational sketch up license. I'm not sure what the commercial rates for all the above work would have been but I wouldn't be surprised if it was over 5k (5% of our budget roughly). @JSHarris has a really useful page on his blog regarding the processes.

 

We've used two engineers (one for our frame and one for a retaining wall) and gladly plaid for the service - an unavoidable cost really.

 

In addition to the savings I've really enjoyed this aspect of the build and learning the regs early helps tremendously on site.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by bissoejosh

[Hecateh]

14 minutes ago, IanR said:

 

You can only claim once so the former is true, but just wondering if you have seen something that states the latter. I believe that once you have a completion Certificate you can't claim any VAT incurred there after, but hadn't seen anything similar regard an occupation date.

 

AFAIK it is the former - just one claim and within 3 months of the Completion Certificate, Like you I don't think occupation makes a difference.  As I'm paying a builder the only things I am buying direct are the kitchen and bathroom fittings so it shouldn't be too onerous a task I hope

 

[Hecateh]

my other quotes from slightly larger builders came in at between 1400 and 1500 per sqm just to get to second fix, also based on standard foundations and straightforward sewerage so would have racked up well over 1500 had I gone with them, hence taking the risk with someone relatively inexperienced.  Although I am not doing anything myself I am doing lots of reading and getting him to explain what he is doing  and why.  He is keen and enthusiastic and. so far, I don't regret it although the professionalism of his team leave a bit to be desired. 

My son is also keeping an eye on things - he is an architectural technician and if he hadn't been working such long hours would have been a lot more involved.  

 

Judging by what I have paid so far labour is about half the cost (week 10) then there is his final profit, so yes if you do it all yourself or with unpaid help you can definitely bring it in much cheaper.  

They started digging the foundations the first week in December and I hope to be able to move in by the end of April.  

The sooner the better as the cost I haven't included above is the loan interest - which on a bridging loan on this property is very expensive and I need to get this property sold as soon as possible.

 

Building it yourself will take much longer and you will need the 20% VAT in your budget as well - which will make a nice budget for furnishings when reclaimed. And probably a much deserved holiday as well 

[Gone West]

3 hours ago, Hecateh said:

Building it yourself will take much longer and you will need the 20% VAT in your budget as well - which will make a nice budget for furnishings when reclaimed. And probably a much deserved holiday as well 

I can't wait for the nice holiday!!

[Jeremy Harris]

On 30/01/2018 at 12:32, bissoejosh said:

You can save a large amount with regards to professional services if you're slightly handy on a computer and are willing to put some time in learning. I've purchased and learned sketchup pro to a point where all our planning, appeals & revisions cost nothing other than the compulsory fees. In my opinion most self builders have a very clear idea what they want to build.

 

I've also done all our building regs, SAP analysis and follow on drawings to help with construction. Total cost £50 approx as my partner is a student and qualified for an educational sketch up license. I'm not sure what the commercial rates for all the above work would have been but I wouldn't be surprised if it was over 5k (5% of our budget roughly). @JSHarris has a really useful page on his blog regarding the processes.

 

We've used two engineers (one for our frame and one for a retaining wall) and gladly plaid for the service - an unavoidable cost really.

 

In addition to the savings I've really enjoyed this aspect of the build and learning the regs early helps tremendously on site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the kind words, and sorry for not being around much - I came down with the flu; my fault for ignoring all the nagging to get the jab..........).  Getting over it now, and trying to catch up here and with an email backlog, a seemingly massive task!

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your approach.  We did much the same in using professionals where it made a great deal of sense to, but questioned the need to use anyone else for just about everything, with my starting position being "could I learn to do this myself, safely?".  If the answer to that was "yes", then that's what I did.  The hardest part for me was the artistic design stuff, I really am not at all good with that side of stuff at all, give me a technical problem to solve any day!

[Fredd]

A lot depends on ground.

 

What are your footing costs, levelling, parking etc. Is the plot dead level ? Services easy ?

 

All the above are out of your control and will cost what they cost (apart from the obvious digging part). They can have a big impact. We have had sites where 3 builds all the same 1 of them was 20k more as we had to dig silly deep on one of the plots. 170+vat for muck away gets expensive fast and you dont fit much on a 8 wheeler, less on a 8 wheeler grab.

 

1000m2 is about right for a normal box, average kitchen average windows/doors etc

 

Get it quantity surveyed, then you can make better/cheaper choices on mats. Some mats will come with cheaper labour as they are faster.

 

 

[jack]

2 hours ago, Fredd said:

1000m2 is about right for a normal box, average kitchen average windows/doors etc

 

I suspect that even with fairly cheap kitchen, windows, etc, the average self-builder will struggle to get near this. You have the benefit of good contacts and, I assume, work with people who know what you want and how you work, so it's all very efficient. Makes a world of difference compared to trying to find trades as a self-builder. At the least, I'm sure most trades build in a "self-builder" margin when pricing jobs. 

 

On average, you also get prices on materials that the average self-builder will struggle to get anywhere near.

 

Add in the better spec that a lot of self-builders try for and it adds up quickly.

[vivienz]

But also that £1000 per sq metre will then have the developer's profit added onto it before the house comes into the hands of the end user. That final figure would be a better comparison. Otherwise it's like comparing the price that Tesco pays it's suppliers with what they charge to the retail customer. Most self builders are looking more beyond the Waitrose end of the market, too, and prefer free range to battery farmed.

[lizzie]

I didnt want a ‘normal’ box or I would have gone and bought one and saved 2 years of stress and a considerable amount of money.

 

I wanted something ‘outside the box’, I wanted it to reflect us and our values and also to be an energy efficient cost effective place to live into old age.  I know all the money we have spent on insulation mvhr etc etc will never be repaid in our lifetime but that was not a factor for us.

 

A warm comfortable home that says to us (couldnt give a fig about the opinions of the outside world) this is an achievement and what 40 odd years of hard work has enabled us to do.

 

For all the stress and the over budget runs and the cashing in the pensions it will be worth it.  It is our house as individual as us and no developer box could ever have given us that.

 

I dont think you will find many people on this forum who will have set out to build a basic developer box.  Innovation, experimentation, pushing the boundaries (literally in some cases) of convention all these things are what people here are doing every day.  Throwing money away for no good reason is not one of them but I would think almost everyone here has spent more than they hoped. Buy a developer box and spend 5 years upgrading and putting it right or be one of the very lucky ones and get to have your own house that sings you from every wall.  Costs probably not too different in the end. I know which one I would go for.

 

Folks we are blessed to be able to build our own individual homes, I feel lucky, poor but yes definately lucky and I have learnt so much on thsi journey.  Still a way to go too!

 

Celebrate your out of the box homes and leave the cost cutting boxes made out of ticky tacky to those who are not as lucky as us.

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Looking back over several years worth of posts on this forum and it's predecessor, there seem to have been very very few that have come in at £1000/m².  There are some, people like @Declan52 that put in a back-breaking amount of his own labour in just about every part of his build, and built himself a very nice house, way above mass builder's standards, for a lot less that £1000m³, but his build really is an exception in many ways.

 

Most self builders seem to come in at around the £1200 to £1600/m² area, with cheaper builds in areas where labour costs are lower, higher costs where labour costs are higher and the spec is higher.  There are probably some here that have gone over £1600/m², out of choice, because they wanted a higher spec - it's pretty easy to soak up money inside the house.  By using solid oak, rather than softwood or MDF joinery, we spent at least 3 times more on materials, plus the fitting time was a fair bit longer, as everything had to be spot on or else it would stand out with the plain oiled finish.

 

The architect that looked through my costings reckoned that most of our cost over £1000/m² came from two areas, the high ground works cost (the ground works cost more than the insulated and weathertight house and foundation!) and our choice of internal finishes and fit out.  We could have fitted a kitchen for £4k to £6k, but instead spent around £15k, for example.

[TheQSguy]

Hi all,

 

A good sound cost plan is the best way to start, this should be based on up-to-date figures (generally the latest edition of a SPONS building price book would be sufficient).  This would give a good understanding of the areas in which your money would be spent.  This can then be modified based on your required kitchen spend, AV, lighting etc.

 

Don't forget this should be a working document throughout your build and can be further broken down with a Bill of Quantities.  This can assist with material and labour pricing and budgeting.

 

If you would like an approximate m2 / sqft rate then please shoot me a message.

 

Thanks,

 

TheQSguy