Paint Problem Panic

[Spinny]

Have spent today applying Farrow & Ball Modern Emulsion in 'All White' to a large ceiling. First coat only following mist coating. All seemed fine while applying it with a roller.

Now some hours later with some sunlight reflected back into the room (albeit through a polythene cover), the ceiling looks pretty awful. See pics.

 

We were going to put F&B Dead Flat on the ceiling and Modern Emulsion on the walls as the open plan room contains a kitchen. However F&B shop said some customers had done this and had it peel off because Dead Flat is not a suitable paint for rooms where moist air may be present aka Kitchens & Bathrooms. Therefore we were told to use Modern Emulsion.

 

Now it looks like it has a pronounced sheen, and seems to make the ceiling look very poor and uneven.

 

Any advice please ? I thought F&B was supposed to be a premium paint ?

Am I going to have to switch to something else which is actually Matt and if so what ?

Will a second coat solve the problem ?

 

(PS Mist Coat was applied by rolling away from the window, First coat of F&B by rolling across the window/room on the understanding we would then apply the final coat of F&B by rolling away from the window again.)

Edited yesterday at 17:44 by Spinny

[Onoff]

I like Dulux Diamond Matt. 

[Russell griffiths]

Wrong paint I’m afraid. 
johnstones perfect matt 

or tikurila. 
I’ve never used the Tikurila, but the johnstones is good stuff. 
I’ve got some serious ceilings with big windows and loads of natural light. The Johnstones hides a lot of stuff. 

[garrymartin]

Following up on Russell's post, I've used Tikkurila Anti-Reflex throughout my home on the ceilings and would never use anything else. Excellent paint. Hides many issues.

 

 

 

Not sure Farrow & Ball have premium paint, but they definitely have premium marketing... 😉

 

[Spinny]

25 minutes ago, garrymartin said:

Not sure Farrow & Ball have premium paint, but they definitely have premium marketing... 😉

Well certainly. But normally a company claiming to be premium but producing a problematic product will rapidly go to the wall.

 

Honestly I have had so much work researching all manner of stuff to put things right. So I left SWMBO to choose some paint and assumed F&B knew what they were doing. It is just paint and I have painted rooms albeit years ago without problem - usually dulux matt and stuff.

[Spinny]

Am I going to have to sand down the F&B modern emulsion lightly before repainting with something more matt ? (It is 38 sqm !)

 

Is the Johnstone's and the Tukkurila going to be suitable for a room with a kitchen in it ?

(i.e. given some moist air from opening oven doors, hob cooking etc will inevitably make it to ceiling level)

 

Can you get these paints mixed to any colour to match the F&B 'All White' ?

 

Don't know what to do with the walls now.

Edited yesterday at 19:41 by Spinny

[crispy_wafer]

We've had some success with Dulux super matt on ceilings, and diamond matt for the walls.

[Russell griffiths]

The problem you have is you are trying to to do two different things you want a shiny paint with no pores open to stop moisture getting to it because it’s a kitchen, but then you want a flat mat paint to hide the plasterers sins. 
ive just painted a shower room in zinzer permanent white and it looks really good, however it has no windows in there so I cannot vouch for its hiding properties. 
but definitely something I will use in wet areas again. 
in a kitchen i would go with one of the flat ones we mentioned as it shouldn’t get damp, if you have kitchen extraction then it’s not going to affect it. 
rubbing it all down oooh that’s the question 

I wouldn’t because you then make it dusty and will then need to hoover it and wash it. 
but I might be inclined to go over the f and b with a primer, maybe the Tikurila optiva primer then the Tikurila anti reflex. 
 

you could phone Tikurila technical help line. 
 

 

[ProDave]

I have 2 coats of Wickes Trade matt white emulsion on my kitchen ceiling.  Never been a problem, goes on well, covers well and lasts.  Why do you want a specialist expensive paint?

[Spinny]

I don't really want anything other than the right colour. In the past, like many people decorating a room, have just gone down to somewhere like B&Q bought Dulux from brand recognition, and the feeling that anything that says 'Trade' means made to a budget price point that suits traders and allows them to maximise their profit. Trade = basic utilitarian. Roller dulux onto the wall, job done, never a problem.

 

SWMBO saw an F&B shop and had a design chat and decided she liked F&B. Whilst expensive, the extra cost is a rounding error in the overall spend, and if it makes her happy fine.

 

We did have a painter's quote, accepted it, paid the deposit, they started the job with a bit of mist coating, then the timeline slipped, then they magically took on 6 months work without telling us and binned our 'contract'. I'd take them to court just to teach them a lesson but I'm too busy trying to get this shitshow complete before we both die.

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

33 minutes ago, Spinny said:

I'd take them to court just to teach them a lesson but I'm too busy trying to get this shitshow complete before we both die.

😅😅😅😅

[garrymartin]

2 hours ago, Spinny said:

Can you get these paints mixed to any colour to match the F&B 'All White' ?

Not sure about the Tikkurila, but you can definitely get Johnstone's tinted. Our local Johnstone's definitely used to have the F&B codes for mixing.

[Gone West]

10 hours ago, Spinny said:

In the past, like many people decorating a room, have just gone down to somewhere like B&Q bought Dulux from brand recognition, and the feeling that anything that says 'Trade' means made to a budget price point that suits traders and allows them to maximise their profit.

I was told 'Trade' means made to cover well and use less effort doing so.

[Nickfromwales]

23 minutes ago, Gone West said:

I was told 'Trade' means made to cover well and use less effort doing so.

Yup. 
 

I use Leyland Trade Matt White (high opacity) for all new plaster work on all my jobs, where we’ve taken the job to a finished article.

 

No mist coat or faffing about, just out of the tub, on to the ceiling / wall, and if we got that on by late morning you could second coat the room the same day. 
 

Very few people asked for a 3rd coat as it just builds ridiculously well. Looks like shite until it’s bone dry, 24/48 hrs after the 2nd coat, and then you’ll swear it’s had 4 coats.

 

@Spinny go for the Johnstones tinted as required, but beware any sanding or priming as you’ll need it to be applied perfectly to not see that you’ve applied it. You obvs need to take steps forward, vs sideways or backwards.

 

Defo do NOT use the diamond Matt on the ceiling. 

[SimonD]

15 hours ago, Spinny said:

I thought F&B was supposed to be a premium paint ?

It is, and applied well and in the right place, it produces an extremely good finish. I've been in many houses where it looks stunning. 

A lot of the other paints like the trade ones are developed I think to go on easily and hide a multitude of sins.

[Spinny]

So have people used the Johnstones and the Tikurrila on ceilings in rooms with a kitchen ?

 

Just been talking to F&B and their position on using their own dead flat on a room with a kitchen is ambiguous. On the one hand it is not resistant to mold and so they say mold might occur. On the other their store said it can peel off under moisture. Only positive is they say it can be applied onto their modern emulsion.

 

In our case we have a 38sqm room with a kitchen in it alongside dining and sitting/tv area. The Hob is against the wall with an extractor built into the wall cupboards above - so should suck 80% plus out of the room. Then two ovens at around waist height where some steam/hot air will emerge. Ceiling height 2.6m with 3 rooflights another 0.5m high.

 

 

[garrymartin]

1 minute ago, Spinny said:

So have people used the Johnstones and the Tikurrila on ceilings in rooms with a kitchen ?

I have Tikkurila Anti-Reflex in bathrooms and in my kitchen. Technically, for the same reasons F&B quote it's not specifically recommended for those areas, but I've had zero issues with it.

[Nickfromwales]

22 minutes ago, garrymartin said:

I have Tikkurila Anti-Reflex in bathrooms and in my kitchen. Technically, for the same reasons F&B quote it's not specifically recommended for those areas, but I've had zero issues with it.

I’ve painted a load of new kitchens, on new plaster, with the (cheap?) trade Matt Leyland stuff, no MVHR in a lot of the older jobs, and zero issues whatsoever. 
 

It is very chalky, so you can’t scrub it, but I can’t remember the last time anyone scrubbed their kitchen ceiling vs just painting it again.

 

Diamond on the walls is very good, but a pig to sand / key for subsequent coats.

[Spinny]

1 month to kitchen fit.

I am prepared to sand or perhaps spot sand (?) the ceiling if that is what I must do. This problem is messing things up as I wanted to finish the ceiling before the floor levelling goes down. But I guess I can conceivably uncover the floor, have it levelled, then cover it up again to sand/repaint the ceiling.

 

Brewers say sand it, or else prime it all with Zinsser 1-2-3 primer-sealer, then repaint with somethings matt - F&B dead flat, Johnson's Trade, Tukkurila, or their own alternative to Tukkurila - Albany AF1 ceiling Paint. The latter not tintable.

[Gone West]

1 hour ago, Spinny said:

Albany AF1 ceiling Paint

We used Albany emulsion paint on our new build, and we were not impressed. Back to using Dulux now.

[Russell griffiths]

Why tint the ceiling paint. 
if you want a coloured ceiling then have it a colour, if you go for one of these trendy whites it just looks like it’s grubby and needs re painting. 
unless you have a good picture with the colours on it to get a good idea what it will look like. 

[Ed_]

3 hours ago, Spinny said:

Just been talking to F&B and their position on using their own dead flat on a room with a kitchen is ambiguous. On the one hand it is not resistant to mold and so they say mold might occur. On the other their store said it can peel off under moisture. Only positive is they say it can be applied onto their modern emulsion.

Your house should have been designed to never form mold. F&B is popular for period houses so I imagine that is why they are cautious.

Similarly I personnally would not worry about moisture affecting paint in a kitchen, i've just checked my kitchen smart thermostat (current 100+ yr old house, average to poor extractor over hob) and the humidity only changes a few percent during cooking.

[Spinny]

7 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Why tint the ceiling paint. 

Well yes. Although the F&B 'All white' is quite a nice soft white.

 

Flooring guy came this afternoon and wanted me to strip the floor protection off to let it breathe and to turn the heating off for 48hrs before they level it. So can't do any painting until they finish coat 1.

[Spinny]

6 hours ago, Ed_ said:

and the humidity only changes a few percent during cooking.

ok thanks. We have chosen a high power motor for the extractor - looks like it would extract a room full of air in 6-15mins depending on the setting.