Why we need "Net zero"

[SteamyTea]

8 hours ago, Crofter said:

Today's XKCD seems relevant.

And true to a lot of people.

[Beelbeebub]

"bUt rENeWabLes arE maKiNg elEcTrIcitY mOrE ExPeNsIvE!!...."

[LnP]

On 29/03/2026 at 14:03, -rick- said:

 

This and long term this is where hydrogen can be useful. Use excess solar during the summer to make hydrogen, store it for peaker use in winter. All done in one site, no need to pipe it anywhere.

 

Other note is that batteries can fill all the short term responsive capacity that peaker/stored hyrdo used to do. The only thing batteries can't really do is longer duration peaker load. ie, those 1-2week super cold winter periods.

The problem with using curtailed renewable energy to generate hydrogen (or ammonia) is that the kit is expensive. The capital cost has to be amortised over the small amount of MWh it will produce, so the cost of that electricity will be high.

That's especially hard to justify if the generation has been curtailed due to grid capacity, in which case the money would have been better spent debottlenecking the grid to reduce the curtailment.

There are those who would say that any plan involving hydrogen as an energy vector is doomed to failure due to poor economics. And this will never be fixed by new or improved technology. It's inherent in the thermodynamics.

... Hope my comment makes sense. I jumped in on this thread and haven't read all 24 pages 😀.

[DamonHD]

8 hours ago, LnP said:

The problem with using curtailed renewable energy to generate hydrogen (or ammonia) is that the kit is expensive. The capital cost has to be amortised over the small amount of MWh it will produce, so the cost of that electricity will be high.

That's especially hard to justify if the generation has been curtailed due to grid capacity, in which case the money would have been better spent debottlenecking the grid to reduce the curtailment.

There are those who would say that any plan involving hydrogen as an energy vector is doomed to failure due to poor economics. And this will never be fixed by new or improved technology. It's inherent in the thermodynamics.

... Hope my comment makes sense. I jumped in on this thread and haven't read all 24 pages 😀.

I think that we should be generating stored H2 to cover Dunkelflauten from serious *overbuild* of solar and wind, not from trying to work round transmission constraints.

[saveasteading]

41 minutes ago, DamonHD said:

Dunkelflauten

Love it. Thanks for introducing me to this term.

 

Not in the same league as street train stopping place though.

Edited 6 hours ago by saveasteading

[DamonHD]

Kein Ding

Edited 6 hours ago by DamonHD

[jack]

On 11/04/2026 at 11:11, Beelbeebub said:

"bUt rENeWabLes arE maKiNg elEcTrIcitY mOrE ExPeNsIvE!!...."

 

This is equivalent to posting a picture of an unseasonably low temperature forecast for a particular summer's day and saying "bUt cLImatE ChaNgE is waRmInG thE pLaNet!!...".

[Beelbeebub]

2 hours ago, jack said:

 

This is equivalent to posting a picture of an unseasonably low temperature forecast for a particular summer's day and saying "bUt cLImatE ChaNgE is waRmInG thE pLaNet!!...".

A fair point except the climate example misses the fundamental difference between climate and weather.

 

In this case I'm showing that renewables are cheap. The rise in electricity prices track the rise and fall of gas prices not the rise and rise of renewables.

 

Renewables have steadily risen in last decade

But electricity has tracked gas prices. 

 

The fact electricity is more expensive now is despite our increace in renewables not because of. 

[ProDave]

As mentioned many times, the ridiculous pricing system we have ensures we will be paying prices set by gas, until there is so much renewables that the very last gas power station has shut down.

 

Ministers may say otherwise but that is the sad truth until someone changes the way retail electricity prices are set.