Fitting heavy triple glazed windows safely on new buildings

[Simmon]

Hi everyone

i am trying to organize windows for a new block of flats. Some of the triple glazed windows weigh in average 350 to 450  kg on 2m by 2 m openings.

I am very worried about fitting such have windows on outer layer brick works.

is there any alternative way of fitting safely by creating an extra support on brick works or something better but acceptable by building regs.

thanks in advance.

 

[Redbeard]

Could you perhaps build them in plywood boxes like some do for EWI and fix back to both brick and block? In EWI the EWI would form the reveal, but in your case perhaps you could tape in airtight and waterproof tape over the ply 'end-grain' and cover that end-grain and tape with, say, 25/ 32mm scotia moulding?

[torre]

Do you mean safety once installed rather than handling? Taking Velfac as an example (as we'll be having them) They bridge the cavity below the window with 3mm or 5mm steel plates at the load points and the fixings are into the centre of inner leaf block work. Not ideal from a bridging perspective but at those weights hard to avoid

[Simmon]

1 hour ago, torre said:

Do you mean safety once installed rather than handling? Taking Velfac as an example (as we'll be having them) They bridge the cavity below the window with 3mm or 5mm steel plates at the load points and the fixings are into the centre of inner leaf block work. Not ideal from a bridging perspective but at those weights hard to avoid

Yes, I am worried for the weight on Brick work after installation of such a heavy windows.

thanks

[Simmon]

Yes, I am worried for the weight on Brick work after installation of such a heavy windows.

thanks

[FuerteStu]

How much would the same surface area of brickwork weigh? 

 

.... 

 

At some point a structural engineer would have signed off if the designs? No?

Edited Friday at 20:34 by FuerteStu

[JohnMo]

3 hours ago, Simmon said:

 

Yes, I am worried for the weight on Brick work after installation of such a heavy windows.

thanks

Where is your structural design? Should be zero need for such questions, if your building is designed.

[Iceverge]

I would sit them on a precast sill on the outer leaf. Preferably one with no more than a 25mm upstand for thermal bridging. 

 

Plenty of flexible sealant for the brickwork to window connection. 

 

Strap and tape the window to the inner leaf for security and efficiency purposes 

[Alan Ambrose]

+1 Yeah suggest you must have an SE look at this and do some calcs & designs. A useful check would be the weight of the windows that were being removed plus details of how they’re fixed and how the openings are presently supported. If you’re not modifying the existing apertures, the new supports, if required, may also reduce the window size allowed by a bit.

[ADLIan]

OP states this is a ‘new block of flats’. If this ‘new build’ then surely all design, method statements, competencies etc, etc should be sorted. Not the sort of question to be thrown out to a load of strangers on the internet.

[Redbeard]

A question: ''350 - 450kg?'' I have just looked at the order conf for one of my windows - 3G timber approx 2.3m2 - weighs 82kg. Yours are nearly double the area, so say double that weight - 164kg. I find it hard to understand what gives you the extra 190-290kg. Or have I misread the Q?

[Mr Punter]

If you have to ask the question here, you are not competent to undertake this work.

[Simmon]

6 hours ago, Redbeard said:

A question: ''350 - 450kg?'' I have just looked at the order conf for one of my windows - 3G timber approx 2.3m2 - weighs 82kg. Yours are nearly double the area, so say double that weight - 164kg. I find it hard to understand what gives you the extra 190-290kg. Or have I misread the Q?

 

[Simmon]

It’s aluminium window

[Redbeard]

5 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

If you have to ask the question here, you are not competent to undertake this work.

 

Thanks for that?! At least it encouraged me to check the relative weights of alu vs timber. From motorcycling days I always thought of alu as very light, but then I never rode a wooden motorcycle...Rest assured that I never have installed alu windows and do not intend to, so all is well from that point of view!

[Oz07]

Excluding the fact op mentions block of flats do people here really get an SE to design how their windows will be supported in the opening?! 

 

For instance if building bog standard building regs you just overhang the cavity by minimum 30mm for part l regs. Nobody worries about whether the masonry will support the glazing. As @FuerteStu says the weight of brickwork in the same opening would be getting on for 250kg plus mortar just on the external skin. 

[bmj1]

17 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

If you have to ask the question here, you are not competent to undertake this work.

Harsh even if true. I wish so many of the builders and trades people I have worked with had the humility to ask questions...

 

That said, this clearly should have been designed by the professional team so asking the architect/se what their plan is here would be a sensible starting point..

[SimonD]

22 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

If you have to ask the question here, you are not competent to undertake this work.

 

Are any of us when we start out on a self build journey? Thank goodness for BH where we can dispense with worries about our incompetence and ignorance to ask stupid questions and get sensible answers I say ☺️

[Mr Punter]

18 hours ago, Redbeard said:

 

Thanks for that?! At least it encouraged me to check the relative weights of alu vs timber. From motorcycling days I always thought of alu as very light, but then I never rode a wooden motorcycle...Rest assured that I never have installed alu windows and do not intend to, so all is well from that point of view!

 

Th comment was for the OP, not you!

[Mr Punter]

2 hours ago, SimonD said:

 

Are any of us when we start out on a self build journey? Thank goodness for BH where we can dispense with worries about our incompetence and ignorance to ask stupid questions and get sensible answers I say ☺️

 

The project is a new build block of flats and the OP does not seem sufficiently skilled and competent to be responsible for window installation.

[Redbeard]

7 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Th comment was for the OP, not you!

 

Ah! Thank you! It did, however, get me digging for relative weights of alu vs timber frames, and I could find no general authoritative source. AI, however (which I don't rush to believe generally but which may be right in this case) suggests that alu and timber frames (the alu being hollow and the timber not until the CFBs get in!) are similar in weight. So I ask the OP, or anyone, where does the 350 - 450kg come from for a 4m2 window?

Edited 9 hours ago by Redbeard

[Mr Punter]

2 minutes ago, Redbeard said:

 

Ah! Thank you! It did, however, get me digging for relative weights of alu vs timber frames, and I could find no general authoritative source. AI, however (which I don't rush to believe generally but which may be right in this case) suggests that alu and timber frames (the alu being hollow and the timber not until the CFBs get in!) are similar in weight. So I ask the OP, or anyone, where does the 350 - 450kg come from for a 4m2 window?

 

Yes triple glazing is about 31kg /m2, so the 4m2 window would be about 124kg.  Even if the glass was 6mm in all 3 panes they would weigh about 186kg.  It is easier to ignore the frame and just use the overall window size.  I think the 350 - 450kg was maybe for a different size but again did not inspire confidence that the OP should be doing this.

[Oz07]

3 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

 

Yes triple glazing is about 31kg /m2, so the 4m2 window would be about 124kg.  Even if the glass was 6mm in all 3 panes they would weigh about 186kg.  It is easier to ignore the frame and just use the overall window size.  I think the 350 - 450kg was maybe for a different size but again did not inspire confidence that the OP should be doing this.

Much less than masonry in the hole then? What is op worried about? Position in cavity?